Variety of questions on first DS purchasePost Date: 2014-03-24 |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
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Topic: Variety of questions on first DS purchase Posted: 24 Mar 2014 at 7:32pm |
Budget:
$2500 or so for each computer Wife and I are getting identical ones, except mine will have a 4TB HDD and hers will have the stock 1TB HDD. (Mine holds the 3TB+ of movies and the rest of the space for games.) I am hoping prices come down a little or I can swap in a 780ti 6GB and keep the price close to this. My plan is to order both by no later than June 1st, about 2 weeks before my last grad class ever is done, so it arrives just in time! Expectations: I want to play every game we play on absolute ultra on current monitor (22" 1080p) and next monitor (1440p-1600p 27"-31" G-sync 1-2ms 120hz+) Usage: This is for gaming, Chrome browsing, and that's about it. We basically play the same games together, thankfully! No FPS games No desire for multiple monitors Need to future proof it for purchase of 1440p or 1600p G-sync 27" or 31" Games we play: World Warcraft (including 25-man raiding), Guild Wars 2, Civilization V, Total War, X-Com, Skyrim (heavily modded), lots of Steam indie games. Games I will be playing: Everquest Next, Dragon Age, future MMOs, RPGs, strategy. SWAPS: I swapped in the Samsung 840 Pro and WD Black, as well as upped the RAM to 1866 Corsair, and the video card to EVGA 780ti 3GB. MANY, MANY QUESTIONS: Do I even need the "ti" to play the games I play, even on a 1440p? Could I go down to the 780 or even the 770 4GB? Do I want the watercooling for just a stage 1 overclock of an if-4670k? Is that overkill? Should I get 16GB of Digital Storm brand RAM at 2133MHz for $3 more? How does it compare to the Corsair 1866? Why is it in 4 DIMMS and the Corsair in 2? Will that hurt anything other than future ability to upgrade RAM as easily? Does the i7 have any value to a gamer? From what I read, the i5 is all a gamer-only needs. But I could have gotten bad advice. Will the 780ti still be beastly in 3-4 years if I am not playing FPS games? I have seen some Nvidia cards really last a long time. How easy is it to add another 4TB WD Black in the future? Or even up to a 1TB Samsung Pro on down the line? Noob easy? I have only installed video cards, more RAM, and a networking card. Will the 780ti 6GB be out by June 1st? Is this case and motherboard capable of SLI? Would the 750W be able to power two 780ti? Does anyone have a picture of the Virtue with colored fans? Blue or green preferred. What looks better, colored fans or internal lighting or both? How many fans come installed on this case? How will the Nvidia upgrade program affect me? How would I go about getting the 780ti 6GB if it comes out within 90 days after my purchase? What are the major differences between this and the Marauder? Is it just cosmetic, because they are within just a few dollars at many configuration points. Saved Ticket #: 940091 Specifications: Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Digital Storm VIRTUE Processor: Intel Core i5 4670K 3.40 GHz (Unlocked CPU) (Quad Core) Motherboard: ASUS Z87M-PLUS (Intel Z87 Chipset) (MATX) System Memory: 16GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance Pro (High-Performance) Power Supply: 750W Corsair CX750M Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) Storage Set 1: 1x (128GB Solid State - Samsung 840 Pro) Storage Set 2: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (Model: Black Edition) Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) Graphics Card(s): 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780 Ti 3GB (EVGA Superclocked ACX Cooler Edition) Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex 120mm Radiator Liquid CPU Cooler (High-Performance Edition) Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU 4.0GHz to 4.4GHz |
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Nav
Admin Group Digital Storm Employee Joined: 15 Jan 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1581 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Mar 2014 at 9:09pm |
First of all, welcome to the forums!
If you want to game at 1080p ultra maxed out and want 120+fps, you're going to want the 780 Ti. If you lower things like AA or some things from Ultra to medium, you can settle with a GTX 780. For stage-one OC on a 4670k, Air cooling upgrade will suffice. A water cooling setup like the H110i will likely be more quiet and offer some better temps. Faster memory speeds definitely helps in modern titles like BF4 and AI intense games like CIV and Starcraft 2. i5 is plenty for a gamer. However, more modern titles are starting to utilize the CPU better so future-proofing can't hurt. Installing another HDD is very simple. Just hookup the SATA cables to the MOBO and PSU. We can definitely guide you through it. There is no confirmation if the 780 Ti 6GB will come out, only the 780 6GB. The 780 Ti is still under speculation from partners. The Z87M-PLUS does not support SLI. You would want a minimum of a good quality 800w for SLI GTX 780 Ti's. We recommend a 850w or above 80 bronze rated or better. The NVIDIA upgrade program only applies to EVGA cards, its something they do on their own. If you specifically want an EVGA card, you'll have to put it in the notes and will likely be an extra charge. Big difference in the Virtue and Marauder is that the Virtue only supports up to micro ATX motherboards but the Marauder is capable of holding full ATX motherboards. Hope that helps! Edited by Nav - 24 Mar 2014 at 9:10pm |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Mar 2014 at 11:40pm |
Wow, thanks a lot for the quick and thorough answers.
As for the overclock, could I go to stage 2 with just the 120mm DS cooler or would it need the upgrade to the 240mm DS cooler? I love the fact it is zero-maintenance. Is stage 2 overclock going to shorten the life of the processor? Is it really even necessary? And did you have a company picture of the Virtue with LED fans or the case lights? Or does any other forum member out there have one themselves? I would love to see it. I checked the options on the Virtue and noticed the ASUS Gryphon, which is SLI capable, so I might help to future-proof myself with that, along with the gold 850 PSU on your list. |
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Nav
Admin Group Digital Storm Employee Joined: 15 Jan 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1581 |
Quote Reply Posted: 24 Mar 2014 at 11:50pm |
You could go with the 120mm but it will likely run pretty hot. Testing might call-in to recommend upgrading. If you do want the stage 2, I recommend choosing a 240mm cooler as it will run quieter and cooler.
Theoretically, yes. The lifespan is shortened but it isn't significant. (eg. you wont go from a 10 yearr span to 2 years unless it is ridiculously over-volted). It's nothing you need to worry about. Don't have any pictures on me but I recall seeing one in testing. If I see it there tomorrow, i'll snap a pic! Edited by Nav - 24 Mar 2014 at 11:52pm |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 1:10pm |
Again, many thanks. The speed and clarity of the responses on here have been great. I have two students who have a DS computer and one friend, and have heard nothing but great things about this place.
As I round out my decision on the exact specifications, a few more questions arose: Will the case on the Virtue be able to handle the heat from the 780ti with just the stock watercooling on the PSU and stock case fans? If I did upgrade to the Gryphon mobo and the Corsair 850 PSU (for future-proofing), will the case on the Virtue be able to handle all the heat from a potential SLI 780ti? Do the colored LED fans have any other benefits, as in, are they higher quality than the stock case fans? With the Virtue's case as it is, would it just be better to get the $10 case lighting rather than replace all the fans? It pretty much has the biggest window relative to the case I've ever seen, and a blue hue inside would be pretty awesome. Lastly, what importance is the Thunderbolt port? Will my future 1440p/1600p Gsync monitor need it? Will my 780ti have all the video outs I will need? I looked at the Ode with its Thunderbolt and some other upgrades, but I don't know if it benefits me and my needs. I think I am feeling good about the components despite the questions above. The only thing I expect to change is possibly to a 6GB of the 780ti, *if* the EVGA one comes out in the next 2 months. |
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:08pm |
Hi rodericrinehart....Until Nav gets back I would recommend a case like the Hafx if you plan on going sli with the gtx 780ti overclocked with ACX cooler. The ACX coolers exhaust more heat into the case than the reference type, single fan cards. The single fan cards exhaust the heat out the back and the dual fan ACX dump some out the back and some into the case. For a single ACX cooler the Virtue's 350d should be fine, but if you go sli, you might have a heat issue. The Hafx is the best for air cooled systems, but other cases that allow fans to be mounted in the side window would also help.
You're putting together a real nice system and I wouldn't skimp on the case if sli ACX is a possibility. We have had a forum member with Virtue add a second ACX card and saw temps on top card go to 95-100c . Hope this helps. |
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:21pm |
Looks like DS dropped the Hafx case. That's unfortunate.
The Marauder with its optional side fans or ODE 600t case with extra, if you ask for it, free side mesh grill that holds up to 4 x 120mm fans would work. Edited by bprat22 - 25 Mar 2014 at 2:23pm |
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ArkansasWoman777
DS Veteran Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4314 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:32pm |
They probably ran out of cases, i'm sure it will be back |
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"Captain Sirius Black"
Storm Trooper i5 3570k Ordered: 11-27-12 Stage 1: 11-29-12 Stage 2: 12-2-12 Stage 3: 12-2-12 Stage 4: 12-4-12 Stage 5: 12-4-12 Stage 6: 12-10-12 Stage 7: 12-12-12 |
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:35pm |
Good point.
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ArkansasWoman777
DS Veteran Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4314 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:45pm |
Yea remember awhile back they ran out of cases but it was back in stock i think the very next day |
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"Captain Sirius Black"
Storm Trooper i5 3570k Ordered: 11-27-12 Stage 1: 11-29-12 Stage 2: 12-2-12 Stage 3: 12-2-12 Stage 4: 12-4-12 Stage 5: 12-4-12 Stage 6: 12-10-12 Stage 7: 12-12-12 |
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:49pm |
Yeah, now that you mention it.
Thanks for watching my back. |
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ArkansasWoman777
DS Veteran Joined: 19 Aug 2012 Online Status: Offline Posts: 4314 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 2:50pm |
Anytime |
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"Captain Sirius Black"
Storm Trooper i5 3570k Ordered: 11-27-12 Stage 1: 11-29-12 Stage 2: 12-2-12 Stage 3: 12-2-12 Stage 4: 12-4-12 Stage 5: 12-4-12 Stage 6: 12-10-12 Stage 7: 12-12-12 |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 3:18pm |
Good to hear on the temps of a single 780ti. I am 99% sure it will be able to run any non-FPS game at max on a 1440p, even in 3-4 years.
I guess I need to decide how important it is to future-proof it for 4k. For this amount of money, I would like the *option* to at least consider 4k when games and monitors both take advantage of it. I looked at the 600T case, but I did think the fan dial on front was a bit weird. Otherwise, I liked that case. I absolutely LOVE the HafX (my favorite case), but didn't think it was an option since it wasn't on the site. I have seen it in person and it is a serious beast in all regards. Nav - any word on its availability or upgrade cost from Virtue or Marauder builds? The more answers I get, it seems more questions arise. For example, if I got the HafX, would I want to switch to the Marauder "internals" to take advantage of the full-size board? Cost difference with Virtue "internals" is minimal. |
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 3:42pm |
The Marauder smaller mobo like the Gryphon would work just fine in the Hafx. I personally, if budget allowed, get the full size Sabertooth for its 5 year warranty vs 3 year or the Expert mobo but not needed if finances are overstretched.
If you want this rig to be 4k capable, sli option and even Thunderbolt might come in handy. Although, newer Maxwell video cards later on might handle 4k better than adding another 780ti later. All speculation, since 4k is still being refined and Maxwell is an unknown. Tough to future proof. If you can, go Hafx. It is the best. Edit.. the full size boards do have more space between sli cards which can help with ACX. The Expert mobo has Thunderbolt but not Sabertooth. Edited by bprat22 - 25 Mar 2014 at 3:47pm |
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Counsel
Groupie Joined: 29 Sep 2013 Online Status: Offline Posts: 125 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 4:01pm |
A quick point on the Expert/Thunderbolt - the Thunderbolt port on the motherboard won't give graphics out if you have a discrete GPU installed, so it's not useful for hooking up a 4K monitor. It is useful if you want to future-proof yourself on high speed peripherals such as external storage. Your 4K display would hook up to the DisplayPort on your GPU. (Which all high end GPUs include these days). |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 4:28pm |
Your comment really got me thinking.
The last two times that it came to time to upgrade my graphics card, I just replaced it and sold the old one on eBay for more money than I thought I would get. You're right about the Maxwell and the unknown future variables. 780ti should allow a nice transition until whatever is next, at which point she might need put to pasture ... in my daughter's PC. She already plays PS4 and steam games and she is 7. Edited by rodericrinehart - 25 Mar 2014 at 4:34pm |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 4:31pm |
Thanks on that Thunderbolt tip. I have 4 external HDD, from 2-3 TB each, but they are all USB 2 and once I get a 4TB in my PC, those will strictly be for back up and hooked up the TVs.
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 4:42pm |
Yeah, next generation cards sometimes change adding to sli later. Always newer and stronger coming along.
Counsel is right about the Expert mobo and for storage, probably not needed. Lots to think about. |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 10:19pm |
Well, I looked into the 3 motherboards and couldn't make much of it, as they were all well-reviewed by a variety of sites and retailers.
What is the difference for an end-user (and his wife) who are primarily interested in gaming, on a single monitor? Between Gryphon, Expert, and Sabertooth. From my very layman's perspective, the Expert seems better due to inclusion of Bluetooth, WiFi, and possibly better audio components. However, I don't know if it's $100 better. That's almost enough to go from i5 to i7, which is surely a better expenditure of that $100? |
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rodericrinehart
Newbie Joined: 23 Mar 2014 Online Status: Offline Posts: 30 |
Quote Reply Posted: 25 Mar 2014 at 10:33pm |
It is looking like I have the Virtue as posted originally, with a change being Gryphon mobo (and the t-shirt!) for $2382.
So, that's $2382 x 2 = $4764 plus $364 for an extra 4TB for our media (only on my PC), for a total of $5128 for both PCs All I need to add to that is the cost to upgrade from Virtue to Haf X, which I have my heart set on. I'm hoping it's possible and not too expensive. Wife already wanted me under 5k, but the two months before I can order this might see some small price drops. |
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bprat22
DS ELITE DigitalStorm East -- (Unofficially!) Joined: 08 Jun 2011 Online Status: Offline Posts: 20391 |
Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 2014 at 3:22am |
The Gryphon mobo is an excellent board. If WiFi, etc isn't needed, then save some money. The Virtue case is also a real nice pick, just a little light on airflow if sli with certain cards is the plan.
Nice builds you've put together. |
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Nav
Admin Group Digital Storm Employee Joined: 15 Jan 2021 Online Status: Offline Posts: 1581 |
Quote Reply Posted: 26 Mar 2014 at 12:56pm |
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