Config Advice!

Hello, my name is Shane. I've been gaming on a notebook for about three years now and really want to step-up and get myself a nice system. You would probably laugh if you ever saw my Lenovo; 1.6ghz single-core, integrated graphics, crap display.. I've been saving up some cash for about two years now, I've got $3,600 total. I don't have a credit card yet so my parent's will be doing the purchase online for me. Please keep in mind, I am not interested in a quad-core CPU at the moment but I am up to hear any other suggestions or recommendations.

Here it is: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=204146

Looks like a good system, but i have a few suggestions:

Copy of Specifications:
Chassis: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Power Supply: 1200W Thermaltake (Triple and Quad SLI Compatible) (Toughpower Edition)
Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo E8600 3.33GHz (1333MHz Front Side Bus) (6MB Cache)
Motherboard: nVidia 790i Ultra Core 2 Quad (nForce 790i Ultra SLI) (DDR3 Only)
System Memory: 4GB DDR3 1333MHz OCZ
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 1: 300GB Western Digital VelociRaptor (10K RPM) (16MB Cache) (Extreme Speed)
Hard Drive 2: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Raid Option: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 3: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: DVD-ROM/CD-ROM (DVD Reader 16x / CD Reader 40x)
Wireless Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260 Overclocked Edition 896MB (Includes PhysX Technology)
TV Tuner: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: Liquid Chilled FrostBite CPU Only
Internal Lighting: Blizzard Internal Lighting (Red Edition) (Cold Cathode Tubes)
Modifications: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: Yes, Overclock the video card(s) as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Memory: Yes, Overclock memory timings (Includes Memory Fan Kit Installed)
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Ultimate (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: Microsoft Multimedia Desktop 3.0 (Multimedia Keyboard + Optical Wheel Mouse)
Mouse: - No Thanks my keyboard comes with a mouse
External Storage: - No Thanks
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty
Heres what Id go with if you want no quad core ps Raid sucks this drive will be as fast and wont f)ckup  3,444$

Edited by XpubuX - 13 Nov 2008 at 1:10am

Originally posted by A7X-Shane Just curious, is there really a significant difference in performance between the DDR2 1066 and DDR3 1333? From what I understand..The DDR2 1066 has an actual speed of 533.The DDR3 1333 has an actual speed of 444.So, in this case wouldn't the DDR2 1066 be a better choice?I may be wrong, but thats from what I remember.. Can someone clarify on this subject?

DDR has their buses duo pumped hence the name Double Data Rate. The number is just the generation, it doesn't mean 2 is dual pumped and 3 is tri pumped.

PC2-8500 advertised as DDR2 1066MHz has an actual bus speed of 533MHz.

PC3-10600 advertised as DDR3 1333MHz has an actual bus speed of 666.5MHz

There's no difference between 1066mhz and 1333mhz for current Core 2 Duo / Quad CPUs as they can not use the bandwidth provided by DDR3.

And with higher speed, comes higher latency. When your processor doesn't benefit from the higher speed, your performance will degrade due to the higher latency.

So DDR3 is a terrible choice for the Core 2 Duo and Quad processors. The only real benefit of DDR3 is that they use less power (1.5v standard opposed to DDR2's 1.8v).

~1% increase is hardly anything to brag about with DDR3. But since the DDR3 prices have dropped so drastically, I guess it doesn't really matter that much anymore since you're paying ~$50 more for DDR3.

The Core 2 Duo and Quad processors use socket LGA 775.

Intel has moved to socket LGA 1366 with Core i7.

So the options available now for LGA 775 (Q9550, Q9650, QX9770, etc) will still be the only options for LGA 775 in 5 years time.

Ya i would say it would be your best bet to go with the LGA1366 and an i7. Hopefully for the next ~10 years they keep using the LGA1366 socket.
Also I read the i7 can only use ddr3?

There will most likely be a new socket for Sandy Bridge which is scheduled for 2010. As it is 32nm and it might last for 3-4 years because going to 22nm might be difficult. GPU and CPU might be on one-die instead of the two-die approach with Nehalem.

All of Intel's future processors will have hyperthreading. Haswell which is expected earliest at 2013 is a 22nm native octo-core with hyperthreading.

If you go with Core i7, you will have the 45nm Bloomfield now and than you can upgrade to the 32nm Westmere in 2009. Once Sandy Bridge comes in 2010, it becomes a dice toss -.^ It might use a new socket or it might still use LGA 1366.

If it is going to have a new socket, won't I need a different motherboard? I'll have to wait till the 17th to check out prices then. If it's to much, I may just go with one of the quad-cores that are out now. Considering their prices should drop a bit and that they should be great for the next few years, right?

With the TJ09, how loud do you think it will be with all the fans, and liquid on just CPU? A comparison to an item found in most homes would be great. An example would be a PS3 playing a Blue-Ray disk. I'm definitely considering dropping the liquid on the GPU. It would take a big load off the price and allow for either a better CPU or a better GPU. Anyways, still messing around with configurations.. Once I think out another one, I'll post it over here.

The only LGA 1366 motherboard available atm is X58 and the price of it ranges from ~$250 - $500.

LGA 775 motherboards such as P45, X48, and 780i can range from ~$60 - $400.

And prices on processors won't drop because new ones came out. Prices will remain static because of the consumers deciding between Core 2 or Core i7.

Intel won't drop their prices because they want people to buy their new more expensive stuff.

Retailers won't drop their prices because they will sell just as much, if not more Core 2 than they will with Core i7. At least for another half a year until Havendale / Lynfield is released for the mainstream market.

Unless you play Crysis or games @ 1920x1200+, going with a single graphics card is usually the better route. Because in a years time or whenever you decide you need more power. You can add another for SLI or get the next generation card which will most likely be double the performance of your current one (ex. 7900 to 8800 | ex2. 3870 to 4870). And you can use your old card for a dedicated PhysX card.

Whereas if you went with SLI and decide to upgrade. You would add another card for tri-SLI and then realize driver support is crap for a lot of games or you buy the next generation card and one of your old cards become a paper weight.

You might see RAID 1 as a data back up solution but really it's not. RAID 1 is meant for hardware failures. You definitely want independent drives for data back up.

Because in RAID 1, if you get a virus. You are screwed. If someone purposely or accidentally deletes data, you are screwed.

I personally would recommend independent drives. You can have a small 80GB or 150GB drive for OS and software. This stuff doesn't need a backup as it's rather simple to get this stuff back, you can back it up if you want.

And than have a 500GB internal drive for storage. You can have another internal drive for backup but I'd prefer external ones.

External drives are more expensive but they offer the extra level of security. It might sound funny but if your house decides to catch fire and burn down or a flood decides to own your computer. You can grab the external drive and run with your data -.^

I like to say I agree with skyR on everything he said, he is right about the GPU, he is right about raid, he is right about going with a 80GB or 150GB for OS and 500GB for storage, he is right about it all and I would recommend the exact same things

So I hope you think carefully about the recommendations he has

no here is how you should do it, same thing I do, once a day or once a week, which ever you like, take 10 to 15 minutes and clone to an external, once I'm done cloning, the external is simply turned off.

I get a virus, windows goes nuts, a bad ms update ruined my OS, what ever, I'm 15 minutes away from being right back to my last backup point.

now any of that happens in raid 1 and both drives are gone, drive 2 is a mirror of drive one, what happens to one, happens to the other.

Edited by DST4ME - 14 Nov 2008 at 1:23am

Ah, it makes a bit more sense now. Who even gets virus's these days anyways though? I haven't had one in about a year, at the time my 'Internet Security' suite stopped it before it even had a chance. Needless to say, It now appears more logical to me to get which ever hard drives I decide on, not in such a setup. I didn't know it took as little time as you mentioned. I tried backing up my laptop once, took hours and only to have the 'back-up' corrupted when I needed it. I figure now with a high-end system it shouldn't take nearly as long.

What about two 250GB 7200RPM drives in Raid 0, and a 500GB 7200RPM to back-up on. I normally would not consider Raid 0 but if I have my stuff backed up, I should be fine. As well, in the event of the Raid setup failing, those drives are fairly cheap to replace. Opinions on that, or would you recommend not worrying about the speed increase and just get two 500GB drives.

I recommend veloci raptor for OS/apps/games and 500GB for personal/media files.

used raid, didn't really like it, and a 10,000 rpm drive I believe will have faster seek time

Well other then having a few my self for over atleast 3 years and others that I know have it and run with no problems, I'm not sure what statistics I can show you.

as for i7 config,

here you go Ticket# 207204 --- Price: $3483 (To see this build click here)

Copy of Specifications:
Chassis: Cooler Master HAF 932
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Interior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Power Supply: 750W Corsair TX (Dual SLI Compatible) (Silent Edition)
Processor: Intel Core i7 940 2.93GHz (Quad Core)
Motherboard: ASUS P6T Deluxe (Intel X58 Chipset) (Supports Dual SLI or CrossFire)
System Memory: 6GB DDR3 1600MHz OCZ (High-Performance)
Card Reader: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 1: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Hard Drive 2: 500GB Western Digital (16MB Cache) (7200 RPM) (SATA)
Raid Option: - No Thanks
Hard Drive 3: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD±R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 20x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Wireless Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card: 2x SLI Dual (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 260+ 896MB (Includes PhysX Technology)
TV Tuner: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: Liquid Chilled FrostBite CPU Only
Internal Lighting: Blizzard Internal Lighting (Blue Edition) (Cold Cathode Tubes)
Modifications: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Yes, Overclock the processor as much as possible with complete stability
Boost Video Card: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: Yes, Overclock memory timings (Includes Memory Fan Kit Installed)
Tweak Windows: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows Vista Home Premium (64-Bit Edition) (For Enthusiasts)
Restore Kit: Digital Storm Specialized Recovery System (DVD Image Based)
Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Benchmarking: - No Thanks
Install/Test Game: - No Thanks
LCD Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Warranty: 3 Year Platinum Care Extended Parts & Labor Warranty

cost less, better cpu, higher speed ram, and more ram too, ability to upgrade to future cpu with the same socket (westmere)

Edited by DST4ME - 18 Nov 2008 at 1:35am

Hmm, can that really run off of 750W though? I few things missing in that configuration that jack up the price a bit as well. First is the wireless, (I live in a very large house, rich parents - I have to buy my own crap), so I need the range of the Wireless-N. Second, the keyboard and mouse would need to be added to the total. The keyboard is actually more expensive on Newegg but the mouse is only like $5 cheaper. So I figured I will just buy the two straight from here. It's hard to figure this out, how about: 207211

That's an excellent build/suggestion there. In about 4-5 weeks my maximum amount of cash I can spend on a new computer will be raised to $3,800.00.. Reason for that, I do get paid minimum wage but I set aside $50 a week for what ever I want.

That being said, I could upgrade the board to Rampage, then probably upgrade to 1600 ram or go SLI with GTX 260. Considering that I'll be on a 27' display, I'm sure I'll benefit from an SLI setup. Then again, 1600 ram might get me a better over clock on the processor. With the 1333 ram, would it be safe to assume that I could get 3.5Ghz out of that processor? I'm not asking for a guarantee that I will in fact receive that, but just an estimate thats all. If I could reach 3.5GHz, I think my money would be better spent going with SLI.

Any opinions on that?

-- edit --

I think this is what I want now: http://www.digitalstormonline.com/comploadsaved.asp?id=207652

Edited by A7X-Shane - 19 Nov 2008 at 2:25am