Switching from Mac to PC... No, to DS!!!

Hi guys,

I just want to say this is such a great community here and I feel a lot of love and passion from everyone and every post I've read! So thanks for that.

I've finally decided to switch to PC from Mac due to work/school. I have an 8-core Mac Pro from early 2009 and I started to feel the need for an upgrade after using Maya quite extensively over past couple of months.

Both my partner and I are in school at the moment and I'm planning to get 2 machines for each of us for slightly different usage. One will be used mostly for 3D modelling and texturing - Maya, Zbrush, Mari, and the other will be for animation, VFX and compositing - Maya, Nuke, After Effects, etc. My Mac Pro is still sweet for Photoshop and most of the applications that I use, but it really struggles when it comes to 3D stuff. I also realised my render time can be a lot faster with a better system.

When I started looking for PC, I was very attracted to the SFF style and I was more or less set on getting the Bolt 2. I think the level 4 set-up with 4770K CPU and 780 Ti would be plenty powerful for most of the things we do. However, I did start looking at the tower models after my girlfriend ever so casually said, "I'm gonna leave my machine on the floor. It takes too much space on my desk." It was after I showed her that beautiful photo of Bolt 2... The image that I had of those two machines - one black, one white, standing tall in their glory, side by side on our office desk - started to slowly fade away...
I just had to share that. Girlfriends are really great for changing your perspective... So I started to look at the towers and this is where I wanted to hear your opinion.

My budget is 8k-10k for both machines. The bolt 2 came up to around 4.5k with Titan Black and SSDs, and the tower models - Virtue and Slade - to about the same. I love the bolt 2 and Virtue, and I think the i7 4770K will be powerful enough, but I do have the option of going 6-core with Slade.

So, what do you guys think? What would you do?

Bolt for me, Virtue for her?
How about 6-core for me, and Quad-core for her?
Or both get Quad-core Virtues or Slades and don't fight over each other's machine?


Thanks heaps for reading guys, and sending much love from California!

Sang



Budget:
10K for two machines.

Expectations:
2 monitor set-up at the moment and possibility of 4k monitor in the future. I'd like both machines to last for the next 5 to 7 years.

Usage:
Machine 1 - 3D modelling and texturing - my partner.
Machine 2 - VFX and compositing, animation, video editing - myself.

Special Needs:
SSD, overclocking (is it necessary?), quiet, and the carpeted room can get a bit dusty...

Like danjw1 said, depending on the applications the GPU/CPU needs will change. If you really want the most future proofing, going with the 6-core yourself will give you the extra boost now and in the future. The extra VRAM on the Titan Black may help in certain scenarios but from what it seems, a lot of the programs you mentioned don't utilize double precision. In that case, you could go with a 780 Ti.

With that said, the Bolt II with a 4770K (4 core, 8 threads) is still plenty fast and will likely result in a minimal time difference considering a lot of the rendering will be done on the GPU itself.

I looked up the software that you have listed in your post, made a few guesses about release levels and then tried to find a couple of sample configurations that you can compare and tinker with.

My guesses for your software are:
* Autodesk Maya 2014
* Pixologic Zbrush 4R6
* The Foundry Mari
* The Foundry Nuke
* Adobe After Effects CC

Maya seems to have the most restrictive system requirements with very specific list of approved graphics cards for each combination of Maya, OS, and GPU, even down to the approved driver. The two graphics cards and drivers that I picked to build systems around are:

NVIDIA Quadro K4000
NVIDIA Driver Release for Maya2014 EXT - Quadro/GeForce Desktop 320.78 - 64bit [9.18.13.2078]

NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN
NVIDIA Driver Release for Maya2014 EXT - GeForce Desktop - 320.49 - 64bit

Since more than one of your applications will take advantage of multi-core processors I tried to find a suitable CPU for your builds.

Memory and storage space round out the items I concentrated on. Hopefully other more experienced hardware techies will offer even better suggestions.

The first possible system configuration is the workstation Slade Pro ($4,883.00)
https://www.digitalstormonline.com/configurator.asp?id=985071

Specifications: 
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Corsair Obsidian 550D Exterior 
Finish: - Standard Factory Finish Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish 
Processor: 1x (Intel Xeon 8-Core E5-2650 v2 2.6GHz (20MB Cache) (Ivy Bridge-EP) 
Motherboard: Single CPU (ASUS P9X79 WS (Chipset: Intel X79) 
System Memory: 32GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance Pro (High-Performance) 
Power Supply: 750W Corsair CX 
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks 
Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x) 
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (256GB Samsung 840 PRO) 
Storage Set 2: 1x Storage (4TB Western Digital - Black Edition) 
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks 
RAID Config: - No Thanks 
RAID Card: - No Thanks 
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections) 
Graphics Card(s): NVIDIA Quadro K4000 3GB (Outputs: 1x DVI-I ; 2x DisplayPort 1.2)  
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio 
HPC Processor: - No Thanks 
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex 120mm Radiator Liquid CPU Cooler (High-Performance Edition) 
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans 
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks 
Airflow Control: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks 
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks 
LaserMark: - No Thanks 
Boost Processor: Option Not Available 
Boost Graphics Card(s): Option Not Available 
Boost Memory: Option Not Available 
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system 
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional (64-Bit Edition) 
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD) 
Virus Protection: - No Thanks 
Office: - No Thanks 
Game: - No Thanks 
Display: - No Thanks 
Surge Shield: - No Thanks 
Speakers: - No Thanks 
Keyboard: - No Thanks 
Mouse: - No Thanks 
Portable Gaming: - No Thanks 
Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks 
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed 
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement) 

The second system configuration is a gaming desktop, Slade ($5,034.00)

https://www.digitalstormonline.com/configurator.asp?id=985102

Specifications: 
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Corsair Obsidian 550D
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 Extreme Edition 4960X 3.6GHz (Six-Core) (Extreme Performance)
Motherboard: ASUS Sabertooth X79 (Intel X79 Chipset) (Features USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s)
System Memory: 32GB DDR3 1866MHz Corsair Vengeance Pro (High-Performance)
Power Supply: 750W Corsair CX750M 
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Optical Drive: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Storage Set 1: 1x SSD (250GB Samsung 840 EVO)
Storage Set 2: 2x Storage (4TB Western Digital - Black Edition)
Storage Set 3: - No Thanks
RAID Config: - No Thanks
RAID Card: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Graphics Card(s): 1x NVIDIA GeForce GTX TITAN Black 6GB (Includes PhysX)
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
HPC Processor: - No Thanks
Extreme Cooling: H20: Stage 2: Digital Storm Vortex 120mm Radiator Liquid CPU Cooler (High-Performance Edition)
H20 Tube Color:- Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Fans: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: - No Thanks
Airflow Control: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: Noise Suppression Package Stage 1 (Optimized Airflow & Fan Speeds Only)
LaserMark: - No Thanks
Boost Processor: Stage 1: Overclock CPU 4.0GHz to 4.4GHz
Boost Graphics Card(s): - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Boost Memory: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
Boost OS: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 8.1 Professional (64-Bit Edition) <br><strong></strong>
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows CD)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
Portable Gaming: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: - No Thanks
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 10-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty (3 Year Labor & 1 Year Part Replacement)

One last thought, since Maya has such very specific requirements for graphic cards drivers, please consider specifying which level of driver is needed in the notes section of your order.





Edited by Theokritos - 30 May 2014 at 11:22pm

Originally posted by sangnomon Wow! Thank you so much guys! danjw1 - Thanks for your post. I haven't researched enough on the subject of floating point math or double precision, but that seems to be the only difference between 780Ti and Titan black besides the memory. From what I've read, it has same number of CUDA core and the performance difference seems to be quite minimal... But once again, it all depends on the software like you said. After your comment on stability issue, I started considering maxed-out configuration Virtue. I feel like more space, and the choices of hardware felt more "solid" than the Bolt 2. Bolt 2 is an amazing machine but the mid-tower casing of Virtue seems a bit more stable. Would you agree?

Yes, it is the same GPU on both, and both are fully enabled.

The Virtue would allow for up to two graphics cards. While the Bolt only supports one, the graphics card's fans will be right up against a grill for pulling air into the heatsink of the graphics card. The card sits in a cage above the motherboard tray. I haven't used a Bolt, so it is hard to say if this would improve thermals. But it seems that this design would have the better thermals. All that said, I do not know if the Bolt has any fan filters, since you expect the environment to be to be dusty, you might be better off with the Virtue.

I looked around a bit, and at least for Maya, from the benchmarks I saw that it performed better on a system with an i7-4770K then on a i7-4960X. Also that it works better with a work station GPU then a desktop GPU. I can't say if this is true of the other programs you are going to be using. Also, the benchmarks I looked at were for the Titan not the Titan Black (the testing was done last October, which are before the Titan Black was released). That said, for around the same price you as the Titan Black you could get a Quadro K4000. Given my limited research you might be better off with something along these lines: https://www.digitalstormonline.com/configurator.asp?id=985192

Intel is supposed to launch the Devil's Canyon CPUs (a refresh of the current desktop processors) on June 2nd. There is a rumor that this will only be a paper launch. That is just a couple days away at the this point, so it would be worth waiting to see.

Edited by danjw1 - 31 May 2014 at 6:06am

Thanks Theokritos for your research. Looks like a 6-core is the way to go.

Thanks for the replies guys.

danjw1- I'll definitely wait for the new processors. I was planning to put the order in for the beginning of July, so hopefully DS will be carrying them by then. But who knows.... I follow rumour sites for cameras and we never know until it's totally official.... Cheers for all the research and configuration too. I have been looking at the quadro GPUs too but I have a question.

Theokritos - thanks so much for the research!! Nice analogy there as well. So I have a question for you guys...

K4000 and 780Ti, both being very powerful but for different purpose, would you say it will be significantly better to get K4000 for work and play games on it rather than get 780Ti and make it work for the 3D program's? I know it's a tricky question coz we're comparing two different things, but I wanted to hear your opinion and how you would weigh the differences out.

Thanks a lot guys!!!

Originally posted by sangnomon ... K4000 and 780Ti, both being very powerful but for different purpose, would you say it will be significantly better to get K4000 for work and play games on it rather than get 780Ti and make it work for the 3D program's? I know it's a tricky question coz we're comparing two different things, but I wanted to hear your opinion and how you would weigh the differences out. ...

I double checked the Maya Hardware Wizard for the 2013, 2014, and 2015 versions. The NVIDIA GeForce GTX 780Ti was not listed as a certified card for any of the three versions. The only NVIDA GeForce GTX cards listed as certified are the 690 and Titan, but only for the 2014 and 2015 versions. Maya 2013 is all workstation cards.

If your principal need is to run all five graphics applications for school and / or work then I recommend that you select suitable workstation hardware.

If you do decide to go with a gaming desktop for one or both of your computers then you probably should limit your graphics cards to either the 690 or the Titan. Pick another and it may - or may not run Maya.

The 780Ti is a sweet, sweet card in a gaming desktop. It probably would run Nuke quite well, but it will serve best running high-end games.

If life's responsibilities dictate two workstations, then take a peek at the Vanquish II level 4 as a possible 3rd PC - just for gaming. Its easy on the budget and gives good performance for the money.

Good luck -- and choose wisely.



Edited by Theokritos - 01 Jun 2014 at 12:30am

Originally posted by sangnomon Cheers Theokritos. I think I might get the Titan Black. I think it's a good meeting point between work and play. I'll contact Maya guys to see it's compatible as well. I don't see why not tho... ...

You have probably heard the hackneyed saying "The devil is in the details"? With Maya and graphics cards, the "devil is in the drivers" may be an appropriate revision.

When you chat with the Maya folks, please inquire about the drivers along with the graphics card. Looking through the driver details on the Hardware Wizard, I noticed that some of the current NVIDIA drivers seem to have issues with Maya. Or is that the other way around? Either way, current NVIDIA drivers are great for games, but may not always be great for Maya. vOv

Good luck. Whatever your choice of hardware, you're about to get some great machines from a fantastic company.