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Quad SLI Asus Mars GTX295 reviewd.

Post Date: 2009-08-26

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  Quote sirsiddius Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Quad SLI Asus Mars GTX295 reviewd.
    Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 6:37am
http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=832&pageid=1

Remember that insane Asus Mars GTX295 that sandwitched two 2gb GTX285's together?

Well these guys have no less managed to get ahold of 2 of these cards and have thrown together some benchmarks.


Edited by sirsiddius - 26 Aug 2009 at 6:40am
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 6:23pm
Mars card...I'm not Martian,I'm not rich...I'm not errr.....emmmm............
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:28pm
all that money and just a few fps better then 1 x 295?
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:34pm
I don't know how it in use,but I know one point:It's too expensive,more than 10000RMB in China,about 1700USD or more...
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:39pm
Ya that is the point, its 2 x 285 in sli basically, its got a $2000 price or something and all it can do is 4 to 8 fps better then a 295?
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:40pm
I think...if you got enough money,then go for it,this Q-SLi would not be that Q-SLi...guess only...Ouch
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  Quote ShadowStar Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:40pm

With DS's price's right now you can get an entire new system from them for about the same price. about all those Mars cards are good for are bragging rights.Big%20smile

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:43pm
I wanted to get some originally cause they would fold like there is no tomarrow but I'm very surprices to see the little difference between it and a 295.
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:49pm
just looking on it...Star
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 7:59pm
I got a question...the power consumption...how big PS should I use......More than 1500W?????Smile
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  Quote ShadowStar Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 8:02pm
Nope just plug them directly into the power grid!Heart
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 8:06pm
Smileyour expression...hah~~~~~~electric shocking...Smile
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 8:42pm
na a 1200w will run sli mars

or the power grid will do
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  Quote <8) slunK parade Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 8:45pm
what a waste
id power those things right out of my second story window
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  Quote EVE Hell Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Aug 2009 at 9:03pm
poooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooool.............................Lamp
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  Quote Davis Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 1:47am
What is folding?
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 2:30am
Folding is a worldwide distributed computing effort conducted by Stanford University to understand how proteins assemble themselves. The real world applications of this research includes potential cures for diseases such as Alzheimer's, cancer, and Parkinson's.
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  Quote Roadkill331. Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 2:48am
=the only thing the mars card is useful, next to keeping you snug during winter

Edited by Roadkill331. - 27 Aug 2009 at 2:51am
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  Quote sirsiddius Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 3:50am
Originally posted by DST4ME

Folding is a worldwide distributed computing effort conducted by Stanford University to understand how proteins assemble themselves. The real world applications of this research includes potential cures for diseases such as Alzheimer's, cancer, and Parkinson's.


Read: it's something for nerds to brag about of forums:
Eg: "I got 100,000 folding points today on my gtx295x4 superrig today LOL OMG /10char"
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 5:16am
And you are not trying to start a flame war right?

here we are trying to help find cure for cancer and other diseases and you call us nerds, people are trying to do some good in this world and you got to go and be ignorant about it.

and wtf is there to brag about? points? wtf do the points get you? you need to stop hanging around kiddy forums, cause it sounds like you been talking to some kids.



Edited by DST4ME - 27 Aug 2009 at 5:20am
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  Quote sirsiddius Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 8:10am
Peace out, did you have a bad day or what? If you do frequent hardware forums they're full of threads from people who claim they can get through x amounts of points per day.

That's probably what appeals the most about folding. The bragging contest about who has the best setup, finding a cure to all of those random diseases is just a side show.

Anyways thats how I see it.
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  Quote Costone Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 12:36pm
A card like that needs its own fire supression system....
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Aug 2009 at 7:58pm
Originally posted by sirsiddius

Peace out, did you have a bad day or what? If you do frequent hardware forums they're full of threads from people who claim they can get through x amounts of points per day.That's probably what appeals the most about folding. The bragging contest about who has the best setup, finding a cure to all of those random diseases is just a side show.Anyways thats how I see it.


Just because some stupid kids brag about stupid points, you have come to the conclusion that proteien folding is for points and a cure for cancer is a side show?


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  Quote satsunada Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 3:40am

cure.. lemme rephrase, a noninvasive, no side-effects, all-purpose perfect treatment for cancer is already found, going through FDA trials now and probably made available to the general public circa 2011-2012 (thanks FDA for your LONG trial period). You can't really "cure" cancer as it's not a disease or virus as much as an affliction. It either happens or it doesn't and there's not much you can do to stop it or prevent it. Tampering with the causes of it could be more destructive in the long run. My 2 cents on it at least..

Though as for other diseases, ya, the Folding project is wise and a good idea. Too bad we can't make zombie botnet's for this instead of crashing facebook.
 
Quick note though, you can get stuff for getting the points. There are awards for it. Not big ones, but there are awards. Otherwise, why put up points? It's still a good idea, preying on people's benchmark ego to help cure alzheimer's is a good plan in my book. Think about it this way, would charity's exist at all if rich people didn't get tax breaks to donate to them?
 
Anyway
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 4:11am
I guess it all depends how you look at it, I couldn't disagree with you more, nothing is impossible, and answers are not going to jump in your lap, if you think that man will never find cure for cancer then you are way off, and they will one day find the cure for cancer, be it by prevention and/or treatment till the cancer is gone/prevented from coming back (aka cured), they will find it cause it exist, and by protein folding you will understand it better thus you can find a way to prevent/get rid of it faster/sooner.

It all depends how you look at it, one can do it/think of it and only see one side of it, that side being stupid points and bragging about those points (aka meaningless)

or

you can concentrate on the positive side that actually tries to help and has some real reasons behind it.

I also find it interesting that you say the cure for cancer is in trials, yet the entire Stanford university tho is apparently not informed of that fact, and nor have I herd anything about it.

so care to tell us about this one cure for all cancers out there that is in trials and going to here by 2012?

and I hope you are not talking about Microbots.

and even after having said all that there are many other diseases this can help.

I'm not sure how you are going to convince anybody to agree with you that folding is for stupid meaningless points and to ignore the fact that it will help scientist understand these disease better, thus helping find a cure sooner.

and to answer your question, yes charity did exist before there ever was a tax to put on them. There you go again concentrating on the meaningless part of something and not the other part of it that very important, taxed or not why wouldn't people help others that need help? or are you suggesting that if there was no tax for charities then homeless people/ cancer, cancer groups/ starving kids, all would not exist? either way it makes no sense.

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  Quote satsunada Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 5:01am
Originally posted by DST4ME

I guess it all depends how you look at it, I couldn't disagree with you more, nothing is impossible, and answers are not going to jump in your lap, if you think that man will never find cure for cancer then you are way off, and they will one day find the cure for cancer, be it by prevention and/or treatment till the cancer is gone/prevented from coming back (aka cured), they will find it cause it exist, and by protein folding you will understand it better thus you can find a way to prevent/get rid of it faster/sooner.

It all depends how you look at it, one can do it/think of it and only see one side of it, that side being stupid points and bragging about those points (aka meaningless)
or
you can concentrate on the positive side that actually tries to help and has some real reasons behind it.
 
Firstly, I am focusing on the good it can do. I like the idea. I wish it nothing but the best, but it still preys on people's egos and gives awards. Don't act like that's not part of it because it is. It's not all it is, not even close.. but it is a part of it.
 
Secondly, if you think there's a permanent fix for cancer, then you have no idea what cancer is. Put very simply, it's where a cell breaks and doesn't stop replicating or in some cases doesn't work right or doesn't die when it should. Causes for it abound and cover the spectrum of human existence, from sunlight to food to disease to genetics. All it really takes is one cell being affected by one cause to create one glitch. That's it. Cell replication of the tainted cell does the rest. The real cure? Move to an isolated area, grow your own food completely naturally, don't interact with people much, don't take narcotics or drugs, get lucky in the genetic lottery, and get minimal sunlight exposure... and even then you might get it from bad air.

Originally posted by DST4ME

I also find it interesting that you say the cure for cancer is in trials, yet the entire Stanford university tho is apparently not informed of that fact, and nor have I herd anything about it.

so care to tell us about this one cure for all cancers out there that is in trials and going to here by 2012?

and I hope you are not talking about Microbots.
 
Don't even know what Microbots are. Oh.. and don't think that Stanford University's goals are so lofty and idealistic either. Just saying...
Anyway, links:
 
1st of 3 videos from 60 minutes.
 
Oh.. and  yes, the folding project will help this for targetting cells but isn't entirely necessary. Would help for FDA approval though.
 


Originally posted by DST4ME

and even after having said all that there are many other diseases this can help.

I'm not sure how you are going to convince anybody to agree with you that folding is for stupid meaningless points and to ignore the fact that it will help scientist understand these disease better, thus helping find a cure sooner.
 
Agreed on the disease point. I said that earlier. I like the idea.
As for the second part, that was someone else's argument.. not mine.
 


Originally posted by DST4ME

and to answer your question, yes charity did exist before there ever was a tax to put on them. There you go again concentrating on the meaningless part of something and not the other part of it that very important, taxed or not why wouldn't people help others that need help? or are you suggesting that if there was no tax for charities then homeless people/ cancer, cancer groups/ starving kids, all would not exist? either way it makes no sense.
 
Name a charity that's older than charity tax laws... and I don't mean church oriented ones. Especially Catholic. Red Cross might.. MIGHT fit the bill. Then again, i barely consider them a charity. Try getting hit with a bill for renting a tent because no one donated to your tornado...
I'm not saying people are inherently bad, i'm saying that the general populace is somewhat complacent. Tend to stay in their own world and not worry about others. There are a rare few that help on their own but left to our own devices, we tend to ignore problems. People are getting wholesale slaughtered in Darfur but is there widespread action? No. Women are still property and christianity is illegal in Afghanistan.. and we have troops there. Anyone care? Not really.. not nearly enough. Incentives always help, as does marketing. Watch any disaster and you can find that out quick.
 
I like your idealism.. I really do... but the reality of things is far worse than you may realize.
 
Oh.. and your last question is tough to discern so I'll say this. All those things you listed would be far worse off if there weren't tax breaks for charities/donations to charities.
 
In conclusion, and to simplify, Folding good, cancer bad, fight on... for all our futures.Ermm
 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 5:45am
I'm not even gonna really respond to any of that, its just ridiculous,

they are studying the cancer and cells so they can understand it, just because we don't know something now does not mean we will never know it/understand it, the say otherwise is just ridiculous.

the below statement is purely concentrating on the negative, there is not one hint of folding real reason there:

Originally posted by sirsiddius


]Read: it's something for nerds to brag about of forums:Eg: "I got 100,000 folding points today on my gtx295x4 superrig today LOL OMG /10char"


60 minutes can kiss my ass, I have so many stories of how they twist stories around to make them sound like a big deal that its not even funny, like the one story they did on how home security did not stop a burglar from getting into your house without anybody knowing and thus are pointless, what was their big reason behind it? it was this stupid and mindless reason:

"if you leave a window open and you don't have motion sensors, a burglar can come thru that window and your alarm will never go off"

now how the heck is the security alarm responsible for you leaving your window open I don't know but that night they sure did blame the home security for it.

further more its just ridiculous to name 60 minutes as a source for anything scientific.

name a charity? there are many charitys around the world that we have never herd of here and the country they are in taxes don't work the same way as here.

Iran being one. then there are small charities that local people just volunteer in to help their own people.

I find it funny that you are telling me what reality is, since you are the one lost in your own perception.

for example:

On a personal note, I'm a folder, I'm dropping $2000 on 4 x 295 alone so I can do my little part, how many times have you herd me say one thing about points?

see the problem is that you are so lost in your perception that you think everybody else is wrong.

I'm sorry to be the one to break it to you but reality is not what you think it is as far as folding goes, if you take a good look you will see you are the idealistic one. I happen to be a very factual person, and at all times understand that that are the facts then there is what I think.

when you look at the real picture, the real/big picture, you realize that points don't' mean sh*t to the research, thus they have no value, no matter what you say the reality is that foldings biggest point is to help research, just because you think its being done for points, its does not change the research its providing, that will always be much more important then some points that don't mean anything. Yes some sites are giving away things in order to get people to run FAH, but that does not mean everybody folding is doing it for that reason, maybe 30% of the idiots out there are doing it for points, but most of us are doing it for research you can make a statement like " it's something for nerds to brag about of forums", I'm sorry but that is looking at it from a very narrow lens.


Bottom line is that you have your views I have mine, all I'm saying is that please don't make comments like that about folders, not all folders are stupid and the real folders have a high majority.

Edited by DST4ME - 28 Aug 2009 at 5:58am
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  Quote sirsiddius Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 6:19am
DST4ME can you provide me with a link listing all the diseases folding has cured since it's inception?
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 6:27am
I wasn't aware that finding a cure for say cancer and such took only 6 years or whatever, again its ridiculous to try and argue that since it has found no cure, it will never help find a cure for anything. there are many new findings of manipulation of DNA/genes that have come from FAH. look around you will find them.

now like I said you have your perception of how things are, and others have their's, so leave it at that.



Edited by DST4ME - 28 Aug 2009 at 6:31am
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  Quote satsunada Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 7:22pm
First off, i'm not sirsiddius.. lemme repeat that. I'M NOT SIRSIDDIUS. That said, I have nothing against folding. Like i've said half a dozen times, I like the idea.
 
Secondly, I posted 2 links. One with the first video I could find on youtube, the other of the actual organization with links to accredited, peer-reviewed medical journals, scientific hard data, and the names and timeline of events regarding all of John Kanzius's research and developments.  The research is sound and backed by the M.D. Anderson Cancer Research Center and the University of Pittsburgh.  It's real, it works. If you knew anything about the FDA, you'd know it takes FOREVER to get approval to mainstream a product. That's why it's stuck. You want to know why you've not heard of it? Because drug companies don't want you to know it. They can't sell a cure... it's a losing deal.. and they sure aren't gonna go quietly into the night when they're making BILLIONS on chemotherapy and medical tools.
 
Seriously though, research what things are before barking that i'm talking ridiculous. It's rather obvious to me that you have no clue what you are actually doing by doing this Folding thing. You know the ideal, you trust the people behind it. That's fine and dandy. In reality, what the project will likely result in is better understanding of narcotics and pharmaceuticals and their tailoring to diseases. No cures... just more drugs. Again, you lose money with a cure.
 
Oh.. and i'm not a fan of you getting the last word on things and then trying to snuff the discussion out. I do, however, agree.. we all have different perceptions.
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  Quote Grog Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 10:32pm
Originally posted by satsunada

First off, i'm not sirsiddius.. lemme repeat that. I'M NOT SIRSIDDIUS. That said, I have nothing against folding. Like i've said half a dozen times, I like the idea.
 
Secondly, I posted 2 links. One with the first video I could find on youtube, the other of the actual organization with links to accredited, peer-reviewed medical journals, scientific hard data, and the names and timeline of events regarding all of John Kanzius's research and developments.  The research is sound and backed by the M.D. Anderson Cancer Research Center and the University of Pittsburgh.  It's real, it works. If you knew anything about the FDA, you'd know it takes FOREVER to get approval to mainstream a product. That's why it's stuck. You want to know why you've not heard of it? Because drug companies don't want you to know it. They can't sell a cure... it's a losing deal.. and they sure aren't gonna go quietly into the night when they're making BILLIONS on chemotherapy and medical tools.
 
Seriously though, research what things are before barking that i'm talking ridiculous. It's rather obvious to me that you have no clue what you are actually doing by doing this Folding thing. You know the ideal, you trust the people behind it. That's fine and dandy. In reality, what the project will likely result in is better understanding of narcotics and pharmaceuticals and their tailoring to diseases. No cures... just more drugs. Again, you lose money with a cure.
 
Oh.. and i'm not a fan of you getting the last word on things and then trying to snuff the discussion out. I do, however, agree.. we all have different perceptions.
You are correct about cancer cells and how they "become".  A cell begins its mutation a good 4 to 5 years prior to the diagnosis.  It's exactly as you've stated in how the correlation between what causes cancer and the inevitability of getting the cancer is based on so many variables around us, and within us.  Genetics have always been a profound factor in the hereditary "passing on" of geno-deficiencies. In other words... I agree with you.  Arguing with this guy that is so drunk on who he thinks he is to everyone is pointless.  The common thread in his response is that he never concedes. Even when you agree with him on some points, he will never see any of yours though you back them with data, just as he does when trying to prove his points.
 
I will say this though, he tends to be more of a "glass half full" guy then a "glass half empty" one.  He does tend to look on the positive side of things and he has a teacher's heart, but his responses smack of arrogance and he lacks the humility to "hear" another's voice. 
 
When you have the world (these forums) stroking your ego all the time it can be very difficult seeing or hearing beyond who you've bought into in the reflection.  Power, of any kind, can corrupt you, even when you cannot see it.  It typically takes others around you to hold you accountable to that.   
 
   
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satsunada View Drop Down
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  Quote satsunada Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 28 Aug 2009 at 11:35pm
Coincidentally, from what i've read on the Kanzius research site, good news, they managed to attach nanoparticle gold to antibodies and they can chase down leukemia and metastocized (sp?) cells. So now it's proven capable of eliminating pancreatic, liver, lung, colonic and skin cancer and leukemia and eliminate cancer's ability to spread through metastocizing (again sp?) in small animals (large animal testing begins soon) though it's not a drug so not like you need to worry about species barriers. It already can eliminate all cancer in a region or site, down to individual cells if given enough time. All accomplished by the following:
 
1. You show up to the doctor, get a shot of shiny glittery liquid.
2. You wait like 20 minutes.
3. You lie on a table and it slides between two poles (like a CAT scan)
4. You remain between the poles for roughly 2 MINUTES. Probably get a bit warm in certain areas.
5. You roll out from between the poles and get off the table.
6. You go home.
  
   No chemo. No surgery. Repeatable likely in a few weeks in case all damage isn't gone. Oh.. your urine might look funny during that time(as your bodies natural filtration grabs excess nanites and dead cells). There's the downside.
 
Folding could help them tailor drugs to aid/arrest blood flow and cleanse the body faster. That's about it.
 
Oh.. and a hearty RIP to John Kanzius himself, he passed in February with complications from leukemia. Never was able to see his creation used to save the children he was trying to help...
 
Anyway, OP , interesting vid card.. I wonder what kind of uses it has outside games.
If knowledge is power and power corrupts, then total knowledge corrupts totally.
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DST4ME View Drop Down
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Aug 2009 at 1:19am
I never disagreed with the comments he made toward how cancer cells work, my disagreement is that you can't predict the future and you can't say that by understanding things better we are not going to be on our way to finding answers, research is the first step to just about anything.

and you can't say that since the research has not yielded anything great so far, that it never will, like I said so far FAH has help find many new information we did not have before, and for the last time cancer is only one of many other things it can help us understand better.

Edited by DST4ME - 29 Aug 2009 at 1:20am
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  Quote Grog Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 29 Aug 2009 at 9:18am
Originally posted by satsunada

Coincidentally, from what i've read on the Kanzius research site, good news, they managed to attach nanoparticle gold to antibodies and they can chase down leukemia and metastocized (sp?) cells. So now it's proven capable of eliminating pancreatic, liver, lung, colonic and skin cancer and leukemia and eliminate cancer's ability to spread through metastocizing (again sp?) in small animals (large animal testing begins soon) though it's not a drug so not like you need to worry about species barriers. It already can eliminate all cancer in a region or site, down to individual cells if given enough time. All accomplished by the following:
 
1. You show up to the doctor, get a shot of shiny glittery liquid.
2. You wait like 20 minutes.
3. You lie on a table and it slides between two poles (like a CAT scan)
4. You remain between the poles for roughly 2 MINUTES. Probably get a bit warm in certain areas.
5. You roll out from between the poles and get off the table.
6. You go home.
  
   No chemo. No surgery. Repeatable likely in a few weeks in case all damage isn't gone. Oh.. your urine might look funny during that time(as your bodies natural filtration grabs excess nanites and dead cells). There's the downside.
 
Folding could help them tailor drugs to aid/arrest blood flow and cleanse the body faster. That's about it.
 
Oh.. and a hearty RIP to John Kanzius himself, he passed in February with complications from leukemia. Never was able to see his creation used to save the children he was trying to help...
 
Anyway, OP , interesting vid card.. I wonder what kind of uses it has outside games.
Nano-technology is the emerging technology today.  It's all about fortifying the molecule and encapsulating it with nano molecules.  Picture a jar full of marbles.  What you'll see is a space full of spheres (moluecules) touching each other from end to end; connected.  But, in that jar and all around the marbles are gaps.  Now, pour into the jar a bunch of small beebees and watch them find there way into the gaps and around the marbles as they settle and lock into place.  All the space is now occupied and the "molecule" has been fortified.  We have recently begun to use this technology in the business I'm in and believe me, this is the wave that the world is catching.
   
I can see folding being a part of that kind of "found evidence" in its part in helping find answers to solutions in geno-research.  I can see folding as part of an indirect study that might assist the science and the scientific research.
 
Are there kids, and adults, using the points in folding as bragging rights?  Why wouldn't there be?  It stands to reason that human nature would be the same in this arena as it would in any other one when they get tossed the "competitive" bone.  I never construed that satsunada was arguing that folding was worthless.  I interpreted his debate to be directed more toward the issue of the ancillary issue that orbits folding and the "points" system put into place that could possibly make folding something that it wasn't intended to be or, bastardize and skew the view of folding.  As with any good intention there are those that will take it and use it for personal gain and make it look bad. 
 
If we look at a glass half full, then we have to desire to see the glass completely full together or we miss the opportunity to recognize that were striving to see the same goals.  We just see the way sometimes differently.  Our willingness to see beyond what we know and understand can be our saving grace.      
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Chris91 View Drop Down
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  Quote Chris91 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Sep 2009 at 4:23pm

WTF DOES FOLDING, CANCER, AND ALL THIS OTHER CRAP HAVE TO DO WITH QUAD SLI?.....you would think that this thread would be about discussions and opinions from other ppl about MARS quad sli, but no...u guys have to be so sensitive and acting like little kids arguing about the most irrelevant crap. when we do find the cure for cancer, cool, let's celebrate...until then STFU, i hate it when threads go way out of topic. I mean no disrepect to anyone...so cut the crap and move on.....

......anyways, now that that's clear, what i was going to say, is that the Mars edition of these card are a complete waste of money. Cool technology, but completely unecessary. PEACE Ouch
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