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Post Date: 2009-06-26

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eastor View Drop Down
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 8:03pm

Ok thanks, do you think this system will stay more stable left on or will it not hurt to turn it off everyday, as I have turned my PC off or on sleep mode everyday with other non-liquid cooled PCs. 

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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 8:20pm
It is personal opinion. I look at it this way, all electrical parts only last so many hours, and a high end pc draws a lot of juice just at an idle. Plus it takes less than 5 seconds to turn off, and 30 or so to turn on.. But it will be fine to just keep it on.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 8:54pm
as justin says its up to you, I will be keeping mine on 24/7, one of many reason for my 5 year warranty

justin what do you know about the SILVERSTONE ST1500 1500W? its a multi rail which I have never used, but reading around seems to get get good reviews.
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 9:13pm
I know nothing about silverstone power supplies. lol I try to keep with PC P & cooling. lol  Had a lot of bad/poor power supplies, but not with PC P & cooling...
the PC P & cooling 1200w is very powerful, very low ripple.. Only con for me is the noise.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 26 Jun 2009 at 9:14pm
thanks for the input
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 7:09am
DST and Justin,  I agree with you, that I don't really need to worry about my graphics solution.  Tri-SLI 275 with dual loop liquid cooling will be awesome!   But I still feel like I am going the "cheap" way, with getting the 920 vs. the 975.  I like that the 975 is unlocked for easy overclocking, which should allow me to go beyond 4.2(depending on the chip) but I believe that this upgraded cooling system should allow me to do that.  I have heard that overclocking beginners can get to 4.4-4.5 stable very easily.   I mean, I have basically one of the best air solutions or so I am told, plus liquid solutions I could find, which I plan to upgrade the water block and to a dual rad for the cpu if I do the CPU upgrade.  With the quality of the processor being better with the 975, why wouldn't I want it to try?  My understanding is that flight sims are very CPU intensive, the flight SIM boards are suggestioning get the fastest processor available...and laughed when I told them I was getting the 920, they shut up a little when I mentioned my overclock but still insisted on getting the best available to truly enjoy games such as Flight SIM X.  Let me ask you this, I do like benchmarking and trying to get the best out of my pcs, especially when they are older.  Wouldn't the upgraded RAM help out in a CPU intensive game, the goal of this machine is to be used to teach me how to fly first and then have great gaming after the flying sessions.  That is how I could justify the cost to myself and my wife for this pc.   If Alex, DST or anyone else have any recommendations on how I could get better cooling to get to the next step with that CPU, I would really appreciate it.   
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 7:41am
Also, last month with the same tri 275 config, you recommended the 1200 watt psu, what has changed since then to recommend the 1000 watt corsair.   Wouldn't the 1200 give me more room for higher overclocks? 
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  Quote Zardoz8719 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 8:03am
Wow...a lot of posts...some very interesting points/solutions/recommendations...on this OC/heat/fan issue.  Thanks Alex, for all you time/clarification.  Ermm 
 
@ Alex...  As to DST4Me's post (pointing to Justin.kerr's mention of the new EK water block--being better than the current EVGA...as it coveres more "hot" parts)...your answer that it "complicates" the LC answer by increasing the temp of the liquid...and that the fan remedy costs less and solves the heat issue.  I guess my observation/question is...doesn't this point to a deficiency/limitation in current LC "answers"--being that the liquid (without modifying/adding newer mechanisms to additionally cool it are (very) near operating limits?  And, if I might...your mention (some months back) that DSO was working on their own/in-house cooling solution (with the mention of "frost" in the topic...really caught my attention) but, alas have not heard anything since--is this "secret" remedy still in the works...or anywhere near completion/release (sorry, inquiring minds are wondering...) Pinch   
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 10:39am

Now that I have the classified board, why would I not go with atleast 1600MHZ ram, I am thinking with going with the 2000MHZ, as it might help with Flight Sim X and other games that are CPU intensive.  Also, for benchmarking, wouldn't it be more fun to have the 2000MHZ RAM?  lol

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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 11:15am
Originally posted by eastor

 But I still feel like I am going the "cheap" way, with getting the 920 vs. the 975.  I like that the 975 is unlocked for easy overclocking, which should allow me to go beyond 4.2(depending on the chip) but I believe that this upgraded cooling system should allow me to do that.  I have heard that overclocking beginners can get to 4.4-4.5 stable very easily.   I mean, I have basically one of the best air solutions or so I am told, plus liquid solutions I could find, which I plan to upgrade the water block and to a dual rad for the cpu if I do the CPU upgrade.    
Some of the best experienced Over clockers have a running database of 24/7 prime stable i7's. Most are 3.8-4.2 Ghz with HT on. 4.4-4.5 may be possible, but the heat starts to increase dramatically. If you get a great 975, like the 3845B batch, after a few weeks of trying, you might get 4.5 stable with HT on, but it won't be easy. Same can be said, if you get a great 920 though. lol I have some of the newer batches of i7's and they don't seem to overclock as well as the first D0 stepping, which is common in the chip world.
 Best advice I can give when it comes to overclocking, Don't get greedy. lol Take a good, stable, cool overclock and be happy.. I
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 12:26pm
eastor if anybody at fsx forums told you that a 975 OCed to 4.0GHz will better with fsx then a 920 OCed to 4.0GHz, then tell them to go F themselves. the same with 1600MHz vs 2000MHz.

even crysis that is very CPU intensive, notices little difference in CPU speed above 1600 x 1200 resolution.

its just a fact, when you start going above 1600 x 1200 the CPU and ram become less and less effective and the GPU is what becomes more important. so with a 4.0GHz OC you are good to go.

no 1200w will not give you higher OC, there is no guaranteed that the chip you get will even OC to 4.5GHz stable 24/7.

I'm with justin, a 4.0GHz, 4.2GHz stable OC is better then a 4.4GHz non stable OC any day.

the rest is up to you.

but I would not say getting the 920 is going the cheap way.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 12:35pm
BTW as for james saying zalman fans are quiet, look at what Instinct had to say, he has LC and zalman fans, he complained about his noise, at first I thought it was his GPUs fans, turns out it his zalman fans. I have seen others complain about fan noise, so I don't understand where he gets the idea that zalman fans are quiet, uless of course I'm missing something.
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 2:00pm
Thanks for the heads up...I guess I will hold off then on any further upgrades.   Hopefully I will be able to get some low temps with my current cooling solution. 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 2:21pm
well as long as you are below 80c you are good to go.

and the system wont pass DS's test unless its below 85c, and their test room is a warm room 80c 80f, so unless your room temp is 80c 80f, whatever load temps they have in their test is gonna be lower in your room.

Edited by DST4ME - 27 Jun 2009 at 3:02pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 2:39pm
There room is not 80c. Smile  maybe 80f
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 2:59pm
crap I always do that I'm so stuck on the Cecilius of parts temps that I forget to change it to Fahrenheit for room temp

if the room was at 80c there would be some major problems
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 4:38pm
ok well I will post the temps once my rig gets through the testing phase. 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 4:39pm
cool,that would be great, good luck and I wish you low load temps


Edited by DST4ME - 27 Jun 2009 at 4:39pm
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 5:46pm
Thanks DST!  Ermm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 27 Jun 2009 at 6:06pm
My pleasure boss
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 7:33am
Hey DST,
 
         I talked to DST James yesterday, I ended up getting a dual RAD for the CPU in my rig, and one 120 RAD for the video cards.  This was to replace 3 120 RADs that James was hooking me up with...I don't think I am going to get the upgraded waterblock because I don't think I will really notice much of difference.   I am looking forward to getting the system, debating if I want to upgrade the shipping options. :)   
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 1:35pm
Its upto you but are you sure a single rad is good for 3 cards?
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 3:02pm

Yeah, that is what I was thinking...what would you recommend for the three cards?   I am still debating on the upgraded water block and I want to try to overclock the cards so that they will be similar in spec to the 285, if that is possible.  James says that I am set with the current config, put I don't mind dropping some more money to get some better overclocks because once it leaves DS, I won't be able to upgrade the cooling solution through them, at least it is not an option on the website and I don't want to pay shipping costs back and forth.    Also, I am considering dropping a lot more money on RAID 0 160GB Intel.  That would be awesome hard drive performance.

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 3:13pm
raid 160GB Intel will run you $2000, I would recommend against it, Intel is coming out with new models and these prices are gonna drop next year. stick with ocz vertex for now till next year.

go with a dual rad for the Tri sli also, and upgrade your water block.

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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 3:23pm
Well I think it would be around $700 dollars more for the RAID 0, as I already have the 160 GB edition.  I have two velcioraptors in my old rig in RAID 0, I couldn't believe how that speed up my system.  It is like a whole new system.  So I was getting a little greedy...do you know if you are allowed to upgrade the hard drives without voiding the warrenty from DS...I am pretty sure you can but just wanted to check...was thinking of getting another 160GB Intel drive once the price comes down in the next month or two and putting them in RAID 0 when I do my upgrade to Win7.  There is a rumor that the next intel drives might be coming out in weeks, not months, so I think the would be an awesome solution. 
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 4:05pm

DST,  I spoke to DS James...the only way to get the dual RAD for the GPUs was to place it on the outside of the case which I don't want to do.  He recommended against getting an upgraded waterblock, as he did not think the upgraded water blocks were that much better if any then the dual loop waterblocks that they provide.   Also to get the upgraded waterblock, I would have to have it special ordered and place a delay on the system.    I know you are going to hate me forever, but I read a ton of articles about gaming at 2560X1200 which I will be mostly gaming at...they indicate that Vram is more important at this resolution and I have seen that the 285 does much better then the 275 when it comes to those resolutions and games that I want to play.  So instead of spending the $700 dollars on the hard drive.  I got the 2GB 285 GTX version as they had that in stock.  It cost me $643 extra, but now I feel better about my graphics solution and won't feel like I will need to upgrade any time soon.  I know it is way overkill but my wife has been accepting of my config changes, as she knows this is my favorite hobby.   I am looking forward to OCing those and seeing what I can get.  Please don't hate me! lol 

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  Quote Zardoz8719 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 5:30pm
Eastor has anybody approached you on the movie rights to this epic build of yours Smile    As for your wife "accepting (your) configuration changes" I think you not only need to post a picture of this Angel...but consider selling DNA samples so the rest of us can clone her Cool   I could probably go back through the "14" pages of posts to find out...but, did you ever start out with a "budget" on this beast...and how's that going by the way  Broken%20Heart
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 6:00pm
eastor, who told you that at 2560 x 1600 vram is important? do they have any benches to show the difference? the difference I have seen is 4fps between 275 and 285, as you sli the difference becomes less and less.

its up to you, I always advise on what makes sense money-wise, if you want to spend that much more money on performance you won't notice go ahead, but I'm telling you right now, I can bring you plenty of people that think for example quad sli 295 makes a difference at resolutions that it actually does not, most of the people you hear say 285 2GB version makes a difference are people who foolishly paid for one or more and then of course they are not doing to admit to themselves that they made a mistake, instead they swear up and down that it makes a difference, but they don't have nothing to compare it to.

the only thing that matters when playing games is that you get 60 fps or above in your resolution, if you can get 60 fps in your game at your resolution, you are playing smooth, it does not matter how you achieved that 60 fps, it can be with 512MB of vram or 800GB of vram, as long as you got 60 fps you are playing smooth. Tri sli 275 will give you 60 fps in games at 2560 x 1600.

here is your big difference in one card:

check it: crysis at 2560 x 1600 one in 285 1GB, one in 285 2GB, notice in both cases the 275 789MB version is only 1 fps off from both of the 285s:






the rest is up to you.

is james gonna pay for your PC to be shipped back to DS and pay for a dual rad if your Tri sli temps suck under heavy load? why do you think originally they give the CPU one rad and the GPUs 2 rads?

so what is the water block they are using that is not going to make a big difference? when you are pushing yourself every little bit counts.



Edited by DST4ME - 30 Jun 2009 at 6:15pm
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 7:17pm
Yeah, I am about one thousand over budget, but this is my dream build and I couldn't say no to one of the best graphic solutions available.   By the way, I will post a picture of my wife when I get the rig and yes, she is an angel....lol.    DST, I trust that you know what you are talking about, but $600 dollars is not a lot of money to me...so for me to have the second or third best solution vs. the best graphics solution possible without having to do extra mods to the watercooling/rig then I will do that every time.  With regards to your Crysis Warhead FPS graph, I have heard the difference is wider in other games with the 2560X1600 resolution.   Although, I have also heard several other knowledgable posters such as yourself say that 1X2GB cards will be needed in the next 1-2 years...so that is another reason for the pick.  The 275 option is great for most people.  I just don't want to feel the need to upgrade next year and have regret that I could have gotten a better solution.  I never regret overpaying on anything, it is not worth it to me and I felt like you steered me in the right direction with the CPU so that I could get this solution.  Thank you for that.  James basically said that the techinicans can not put a third RAD in the case, which he orginally thought they could...the
upgraded dual loop system, which I have heard is really really good, comes with two 120mm RADs, one for the CPU, the other for the video cards.  I have a dual RAD 240 mm RAD for the CPU and 1 120mm RAD for the three GPUs.   I understand your concern...but I have called them about 15 times and this is the best solution they are willing to offer, even though I am will to pay for the upgrade.  If I want more done, then the RADs will have to be outside the case...and that does not interest me.  If I have problems with the cooling, then I will report it on here but I highly doubt it...otherwise DS would not be in business.   Thanks again for your help....but I am not changing the config any more unless DS comes back with something during testing. 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 7:56pm
eastor as you see from my last post the difference between 2GB 285 and 1GB 285 is nothing, they are both doing 25 fps, and the 275 is doing 24 fps, in Tri sli its even less then 1 fps, so you are paying $600 for less then 1 fps.

I have never said that 1 x 2GB GPUs are gonna be needed, nor will I ever say that.

as I said before, whether be it now or in 2 years, you will never notice the difference between Tri sli 275 and Tri sli 285, you will notice a difference between future cards and a 285 or 275 for sure

eastor its your rig and you do what you want, but now your going with hotter cards and and one single rad, if you are not happy later on, remember you were warned.

like I said, you can call them all you want, but is James gonna pay to fix everything you may not like when you get it?

also put the rad outside, are you more worried about looks or performance, if you want to push your CPU that is great, but how are you gonna push it when your GPUs will be putting more heat in your case that will effect your CPU?

like I said its your PC and you should get what ever makes you happy, I'm just making sure I share all the info I know so later on I don't feel guilty that there was something I could say but did not.

good luck, I hope it all turns out great for you

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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 8:26pm
Thanks DST and I do appreciate the advise...hopefully it works out for the best....now I have to figure out what is wrong with my Dell 30" monito that came in today.  I was under the impression that 8800GTX in SLI would support 2560X1200 but it appears that it is not the case or my monitor is bad.  There is flickering on the monitor with all resolutions.  I am running a dual dvi-d cord that came with the monitor running out of one of my GTXs.   I think I had a single level dvi cord running to my previous 26" Samsung monitor. This would suck if the monitor is bad...might have to wait for the rig to come in to truly test it, as it says clearly that you need a new video card for the monitor to work correctly.   Do you have any thoughts? 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 30 Jun 2009 at 9:26pm
OK so you have the cards in sli and using a dual link DVI from one of the cards to monitor right?

is the flickering happening during normal use or during gaming?
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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 6:47am

Yes, I have the dual cord coming out of the same Dvi port I used before for my other monitor with no issues, tried the single DVI just for kicks and the picture would not display...I did find some lower resolutions that the monitor works at without the flicking...as it is pretty constant...so that is what I am using to type this message.   I haven't even tried any gaming yet.   All other resolutions above 1280X800 have the flickering issue, it is basically white lines showing up on the desktop and other apps in a constant flicker.   The only thing I can think of is, is that it is either a driver issue with my cards or the monitor is bad.   I do have the option to go to 1256X1600 res...as that is the default and from what I have read, my cards will support it in SLI mode, which they are currently in.   

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  Quote eastor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 9:15am

I wonder if it has something to do with the DVI-D cable that came with it....I know my video cards work with the other cable and my other monitor...it does not work however with my old single DVI cord.    The 1256X1600 resolution does work but it is not stable...as the image will go to black occasionally and flicker with some white lines...which I guess you could call noise.  It does this at all resolutions higher then 1280X800 which is kind of puzzling to me. 

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 01 Jul 2009 at 1:43pm
update your drivers and lets see if that helps
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