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HD 5870's released

Post Date: 2009-09-23

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  Quote Jingping Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: HD 5870's released
    Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 2:21am
Any thoughts?  By all accounts, these are awesome cards, priced at around $400, significantly better than the GTX 285, and in some cases even better than the GTX 295.  DS, you guys have your eyes on this sucker?
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 10:42am

It is a good card, if you have the 8800, or 9800 Nvidia card, or 38XX ATI card it is a great upgrade. But I would hold out till Nvidia comes out with the 300 series. That is when the 5890 should be released, and the 5870 price will be a lot less. Plus we will know what the Nvidia 300 cards can do.

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 1:53pm
Ya wait till jan -feb so you can see all the cards out, nvidia should have the most powerful one out then.
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 2:14pm
just hope that nvidia uses decent VRM's on the 300 series.. these cheap VRM's drive me crazy, + having to solder on a brand new $450. card to volt mod it is just a pain in the butt.    The new 5870's can be soft mod volted, like the 4890's! 
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  Quote sdelu Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 2:58pm
i'd really like to see ATI beat nvidia this time around, if only because we'd see a lot of advances and price competition that way. Either way, they have a hell of a head start so far, and they still manage to be priced cheaper than a lot of 285s and 295s. lookin good for now...

Edited by sdelu - 23 Sep 2009 at 3:01pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 3:01pm
ATI always has the lower priced cards and nvidia always has the most powerful ones.

just like last year, ATI will have the crown till jan - feb were nvidia will dominate again.

at the end of the day its more of a preference unless you want to fold, then ati is useless.

Edited by DST4ME - 23 Sep 2009 at 3:02pm
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  Quote <8) slunK parade Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 6:32pm
Originally posted by DST4ME

ATI always has the lower priced cards and nvidia always has the most powerful ones.

just like last year, ATI will have the crown till jan - feb were nvidia will dominate again.

at the end of the day its more of a preference unless you want to fold, then ati is useless.


are you talking about buying the 5870 now? cus i dont see the logic if your talking about the new series of cards ;)
you said Nvidia was more powerful and ATi Is cheaper, both of the new series from each company will have more performance than anyone could even use.
so wouldnt buying the cheaper fast card be more useful (ATi)
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 6:47pm
when I said cheaper, I didn't mean useless cheap, I meant ati has a lower price, so if you want to sacrifice a bit of performance for price you can still endup ok.

however I wouldn't say that each company will have more performance then anyone could use, cause judging by the 5870 and your own link in another post, the 5870 is almost the same as a 295, and people who have 2560 x 1600 resolution will have use for dual sli, as one card won't do it, add to that the fact that each year the size monitors purchased gets higher, and you come up with the fact that in 2 years, these cards will like the 9800 series of now.

but for folding ati is crap, it does half the work of a nvidia card.

cheaper fast card would be useful? each situation is different, not in my case, and I know plenty other people that rather have the power then the few bucks they save. to each his own, but there are cases where the extra power is needed, even these cards will not run crysis at high settings with aa and af very high, unless you get at least 2 of them, and just imagine how much more power hungry the next crysis will be.

Edited by DST4ME - 23 Sep 2009 at 6:50pm
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 6:57pm
We will carry the new ATI 5870 soon.
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  Quote MyThLoSt Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 7:33pm
The 5870 is better than anything  Nvidia has out right now. All the reviews that I have seen would make we want to get the 5870, unless u want to wait about 3 months and then Nvidia will have the 300 series and ati will drop the price of the 5xxx cards.

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2009/09/22/amds_ati_radeon_hd_5870_video_card_review

http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643

http://www.guru3d.com/article/radeon-hd-5870-review-test/1

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/23/ait-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-review/1


Edited by MyThLoSt - 24 Sep 2009 at 1:02pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 23 Sep 2009 at 7:37pm
Originally posted by <8) slunK parade

Originally posted by DST4ME

ATI always has the lower priced cards and nvidia always has the most powerful ones.

just like last year, ATI will have the crown till jan - feb were nvidia will dominate again.

at the end of the day its more of a preference unless you want to fold, then ati is useless.


, both of the new series from each company will have more performance than anyone could even use.

QUADFIRE with 5870's it the most power you can get ATM, at still not even close to enough power to max out a lot of cuurent games, let alone upcoming games.
DST is right ATI does not fold, but Nvidia does not do HTPC, so it all depends on what you want.
 
another interesting fact is that the 5870's are maxing out Pcie 8x, some games are seeing %10 improvement going with 16x soo when buying a new motherboard, make sure that if you want SLI/Crossfire to get a board that will do 16x x 2 slots. the nvidia 300 series will be even more choked with an 8x slot..  the need for pcie 3.0 is coming soon
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  Quote <8) slunK parade Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 1:23am
Originally posted by justin.kerr

Originally posted by <8) slunK parade

Originally posted by DST4ME

ATI always has the lower priced cards and nvidia always has the most powerful ones.

just like last year, ATI will have the crown till jan - feb were nvidia will dominate again.

at the end of the day its more of a preference unless you want to fold, then ati is useless.


, both of the new series from each company will have more performance than anyone could even use.

QUADFIRE with 5870's it the most power you can get ATM, at still not even close to enough power to max out a lot of cuurent games, let alone upcoming games.
DST is right ATI does not fold, but Nvidia does not do HTPC, so it all depends on what you want.
 
another interesting fact is that the 5870's are maxing out Pcie 8x, some games are seeing %10 improvement going with 16x soo when buying a new motherboard, make sure that if you want SLI/Crossfire to get a board that will do 16x x 2 slots. the nvidia 300 series will be even more choked with an 8x slot..  the need for pcie 3.0 is coming soon


not sure about that
most casual gamers (which is a large percent of gamers) dont use gigantic monitors, therefore would not use these cards to the full potential, even a game that uses an insane amount of resources, will easily be maxed out on a regular monitor (1280x1024 and 1680x1080(?) )

this is from what ive seen, when you go to a gaming site and you see one of those "post your desktop" threads the majority have 1280x1024

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:51am
I don't know, you guys tell me, is that the 5870 on top or the 295?







I was expecting the 5870 to beat the 295 across the board.


Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 2:52am
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  Quote venom Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:53am
Originally posted by justin.kerr

Originally posted by <8) slunK parade

Originally posted by DST4ME

ATI always has the lower priced cards and nvidia always has the most powerful ones.

just like last year, ATI will have the crown till jan - feb were nvidia will dominate again.

at the end of the day its more of a preference unless you want to fold, then ati is useless.


, both of the new series from each company will have more performance than anyone could even use.

QUADFIRE with 5870's it the most power you can get ATM, at still not even close to enough power to max out a lot of cuurent games, let alone upcoming games.
DST is right ATI does not fold, but Nvidia does not do HTPC, so it all depends on what you want.
 
another interesting fact is that the 5870's are maxing out Pcie 8x, some games are seeing %10 improvement going with 16x soo when buying a new motherboard, make sure that if you want SLI/Crossfire to get a board that will do 16x x 2 slots. the nvidia 300 series will be even more choked with an 8x slot..  the need for pcie 3.0 is coming soon


4-Way SLI Classified FTW :P
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  Quote <8) slunK parade Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 3:32am
Originally posted by DST4ME

I don't know, you guys tell me, is that the 5870 on top or the 295?







I was expecting the 5870 to beat the 295 across the board.


from the HWcanucks testing, the 5870 rarely beat the 295, on lower res's it lost by about 1fps then went downhill as the Res climbed
It most closely matched the 4870x2's results
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 9:45am
3/4 of the reviewers have no clue what they are doing, so take all reviews with a grain of salt.
I remember a discussion on here lately, that my single 4890 posted higher numbers on crysis warhead that the reviewers 295, lol, we all know that a single 4890 can't beat the 295 in crysis warhead, but it just goes to show you how much a lot of the reviewers know, just plug in the hardware and push start, every system need optimization to get best results.
you can always cherry pick reviews to make one card look more powerful than it really is.
 
There will be a decent gain for the 58XX as drivers improve, the nvidia drivers are matured for the 200 series.
 
in 2 months redo the tests, with reviewers that know how the run Catalyst, and see what kind of numbers the 295 puts out on Directx 11 games.
try running  games at  7,680x3,200 resolution with the 295..
 
And stop wanting high end cards for 17" monitors, you do not need them, don't need to discuss it again. lol
 
here is a reviewer that knows how to setup Catalyst, see the difference.
 
 
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 10:00am
Originally posted by venom


4-Way SLI Classified FTW :P
won't beat quadfire 5870Ouch
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  Quote MyThLoSt Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 12:50pm
This forum looks like a nvidia fan boy forum, but every review is diffrenet and anyone can find a review that makes what they want look good..... but price for performance the  5870 has the crown right now


Edited by MyThLoSt - 24 Sep 2009 at 1:00pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:08pm
all creditable sites show the same thing, this forum is not a nvidia fanboy and reviews are all the same.

I mean even all the site listed show the 5870 above 4870x2.

when majority show the 5870 above 4870x2 and 295 above 5870 then you go with majority not the singular one.

@jusin, I see 5870 crosfire on top but so what? there is no quad sli 295 there, otherwise 295 would be on top, granted the price is better with 5870, unless of course we are comparing 5870 sli with 295, in which case the 5870 cf will cost a lot more.

Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 2:10pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:12pm
DST come on, dude you are killing me here..there is no quadfire listed.... Ok so put 5870x2  a double card, and it will kill 2 295's...
My point was the far cry 2 bench you showed, was from a tester that did not configure Catalyst correctly, the one I posted did, and wated to show you the difference.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:29pm
that is a joke to say that sites like guru3d do not know how to configure catalyst correclty

but lets use your site:













btw if you look at the first gpu listed in at the top of all of these you will see its a 5870 CF, so its definitely listed.

all of those also show sli 275 beating the 5870 by a great margin and costing less then a 295, soon the prices of 275 sli will be the same as 5870 also so price will not be an issue.

the 5870 will still have dx11 support but there are not that many games out there that take advantage of it yet.

apparently not only can anadtech supposedly do magic with catalyst but they can do magic with sli, cause they were able to do what nobody else can do, which make wow use sli.

I mean anybody that plays wow knows sli won't make no difference in wow, wow makers say it does not support sli, nobody has been able to see any real gains from sli (maybe 2 fps) yes anadtech made a game that don't support sli, support sli

Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 2:39pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:45pm
Come on, really?
single card to single card.. So can we compare nvidias 250 to the 5850 ?? come on, apples to apples here, dual cards vs dual cards, single vs single.
 
I
So you are telling me that guru 3d had a single gtx 285 that beats a 4870x2 in far cry 2 and anantech has a gtx 285 that is beaten by a 4870x2 by 65%?? 65%?? it is funny how that i about the same performance gain that is achieved in far cry 2 with catalyst optimized.. hmm 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 2:48pm
first explain what magic anadtech used to make wow use sli and come up with those benchmarks then we will continue, cause right now anadtech creditability is in question big time, how did they come up with those wow benches with sli, when wow makers themselves say it does not support sli? Sarah who is a DS employee and and a long time wow player will tell you the same, all the wow users will tell you that wow does not support sli.

in short there is not catalyst optomized, there is loads of bs with anadtech, which is how they came up with a benchmark of wow with sli.

also single card/double card what ever, just showing that the 5870 is not faster then 295 or 2 x 275. and soon the prices of 275 will drop and 5870 will not be the best priced either.

is it a powerful card? yes

is it faster then 295 or dual sli 275? no

is it better priced? yes, but that will change before end of oct.

Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 2:52pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 3:19pm
You know what, just to give you the benefit of the doubt, I just called blizzard (makers of wow) to double check, and the tech guy not only confirmed that wow does not support sli, but when I told him about the benchmark, he started to laugh his ass off
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  Quote EdH63 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 3:47pm
Now there's a Blizzard tech dude with no ass.  Are you happy now, justin.kerr?
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 4:07pm
Well I will lay a bet down, I can make SLI work on WOW, if I prove it you give me your new PC from DS.  Put up or shut up. Smile I lose, well I can't because this is been proven for the last two years.
Nvidia says it supports it, read the last 30 driver release notes.
 
One reason a lot of people don't see a gain with SLI or crossfire is because WOW is very CPU dependent, so take a typical WOW systems, running a GTX 260, with a Q6600 stock on a 17" monitor, add a second GTX 260, and guess what, no gain, and a bunch of wining kids mad as hell. Smile 
 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 4:21pm
justin call blizzardm the maker of wow and see if they say that wow supports sli or not, I know about sli profile from nvidia but both users and blizzard will tell you that a). the game does not support sli, and b). with sli profile you are not going to see 30 fps difference. nvidia is talking about sli profile and not straight-up sli support.

our members here have 260s, 280s, 275s and 285s with i7 so don't blame it on old systems.

Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 4:22pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 4:24pm
bet parameter, 2560,1600 res max details,  pick your GPU 260, 275, 285, and I can gain 50% or more with the same settings, just changing SLI, the classified board has a PCIe jumper to disable a GPU, so you can disable it yourself..
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 4:27pm
So now we need a classified and 2560 x 1600 res for sli on wow to work?

Justin with all due respect, when the makers says it does not support sli, I will have to go with the maker of the app/game. its that simple.

you wanna come over here with your system and show different then go ahead but with all due respect, the maker of the game knows better then anybody else what their games can do.

Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 4:28pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 4:49pm
That is what I said in the beginning, the game is highly CPU dependent, the lower the res the more demand on the CPU, less on the GPU, that is why very high res is needed, along with a very fast CPU..
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 4:51pm
so are you saying that blizzard the maker of wow is wrong?

say wow does not support sli if it does?

Tell you what, why don't you go post directions on how to make wow use sli, then post it in the lounge, then lets see how many wow users can duplicate and achieve the results you are promising.

If a bunch of people see over 20 fps difference then you have proven your point, but its has to be a lot of people and one of them has to be sarah and you must also be able to show the same results at wow forums.

wow can be as cpu intensive as it wants, its not more intensive then crysis, and crysis clearly shows sli difference at any resolution.

so lets have you show everybody how at any resolution or if you want 1900 x 1200 and higher wow will use sli. as I said if you can get a bunch of people here and on wow's forums to duplicate your results then you are right and I'm wrong and so is blizzard.

Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 4:53pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 6:06pm
From what I know Blizzards official stance is it doesn't support SLI because of the problems that are inherent with WOW and SLI. But it does work, like in many games SLI can be more trouble than it is worth, most new games have a lot less issues, from my experience.
 
If there is a bunch of people on here running the specs that I would be posting, but I kinda doubt there are that many. Is Sarah running a 5Ghz cpu, min of dual core?? if not she is out.  I can show you that SLI/crossfire works for benchmark purposes, but no guarantee that game play will improve. On a system that I built, tweaked I can guarantee, but how am I suppose to know that every possible setting on someone elses PC is setup the way it needs to be to get the same results?
 
I don't think you understand, there is always a bottle neck in any game. CPU bottleneck Crysis, add all the GPU's you want, but once the CPU is the limiting factor, it is the limiting factor....That is why it is very easy to see when a game is CPU limited.
 
see at low res, how going from 1 GTX 285 to 2 has a small gain, but is  CPU limited to around 93-96 FPS, then adding a third adds zero, add another, and no gain then as you go up in res, it takes stress off of the CPU, and puts more stress on the GPU(s).
 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 9:59pm
correct me if I'm wrong but anadtech's system is not at 5GHz either.

its very simple post steps on how to use sli on wow and lets see what everybody has to say, anadtech supposedly did it with a 920 @3.33GHz, we have plenty of i7 users here with oc higher then that, and some play wow and have sli 275, so show them how anadtech did it/you do it, and lets see if they can duplicate it, I mean either it does support sli or it don't.

I'm not sure where you got the idea that I don't understand how when the res goes up the gpu is more important but there was no need for your explanation, I tell people that a million times by now myself, but the difference starts at 1900 x 1200, so go ahead and post the steps under which wow can see a noticable difference from sli at that res or higher, and lets see how many people can see a difference.

here is what wow's tech support has to say when asked if wow supports sli:

Hello! This is David Ba of Technical Support.

I'm afraid WOW does not. Most SLI owners have to disable the feature in order to play WOW.

Best Regards,

David Ba
Technical Support
Blizzard Entertainment
http://us.blizzard.com/support


Edited by DST4ME - 24 Sep 2009 at 10:18pm
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  Quote Onkel_Ken Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Sep 2009 at 10:10pm
I love my 295!  It might not really be the absolute best but it does everything I need  it to do at 1920X1200 in games like World at War & Crysis.  I mean it is very virtual reality especially with my Soundblaster X-Fi Fatal1ty for 3D headphone sound.
 
Sometimes computers is simply about having the best gaming experience possible while still having almost instant boot-up and surf heaven!!!
 
 
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 25 Sep 2009 at 1:12am
Originally posted by DST4ME

, but the difference starts at 1900 x 1200
  no, you still don't understand, the difference can start at any res, the difference starts when the CPU becomes the bottleneck, that can happen at any res, depending on the CPU and the game.
you just keep repeating the same stuff, with no regard for what i said.. I told you earlier that Blizzards official stand is that WOW does not support SLI, due the the inherent problems that WOW and SLI have.  It still works, I went onto WOW forums, plus many others and there were threads that showed SLI working fine.
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