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Post Date: 2012-02-07

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Sanguineraven View Drop Down
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Topic: Cooling
    Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 2:10pm
Well. Looks like I am getting screwed again, probably of sheer circumstance and it isn't really DS's fault, but that doesn't make it less frustrating.

So after the whole 3930K shortage thing, being nudged towards a different case and then nudged towards a different processor, I am now being nudged towards different cooling. It is a recognizable DS move to try and sell the inferior closed loop cooling solutions instead of quieter and better cooling products like the noctua D14. After seeing that they had not stocked the brackets for mounting them the last time that a push was made for closed cooling with a previous customer, I am assuming tentatively that either this is the case again, or DS really believes in tiny watercoolers over six heatpipe air units...

*sigh*

So here is what I was told:
Dear -privatename-,

We just wanted to give you an update on the status of your order. Due to the significant heat output of the six-core i7 3930K processor, during stability tests we are encountering overheating issues with your system. It is determined that CPU air cooling is just not adequate enough to cool this processor, so we will need to change to a liquid cooling solution instead. You have various options available at this point. Corsair H80 Cooler ($40 less), Corsair H100 Cooler ($10 less), or upgrade to the Stage 3 FrostChill cpu cooling system ($174 more). If you want to remove the overclock, that is also another solution. To avoid delays with your order, please let us know how you would like to proceed as soon as possible. If you have any more questions or concerns, please feel free to contact us. Thank you for your business with Digital Storm.

Sincerely,
Lars

So am I correct this is possible? ESPECIALLY from a company as talented as DS? Come on guys, I know this has been done before..

SPECS for reference:
Order Contents:
- Digital Storm Desktop 341905 Quantity: 1 $4,014.00
- PROMOTION: 10% Discount of $446 Applied to Digital Storm Desktop 341905, Original Price $4,460 Quantity: 1 $0.00
- -- PROMOTIONAL LIMITED TIME BONUS DISCOUNT: $200 Quantity: 1 ($200.00)
- -- PROMOTIONAL LIMITED TIME 1 YEAR WARRANTY UPGRADE Quantity: 1 $0.00
- Special Order: 942 HAF X Blue Edition By: Lars 1/5/2012 Quantity: 1 $129.00
- Additional HAF X 200mm top BLUE-led fan By: Lars 1/5/2012 Quantity: 1 $30.00

System Configuration:
Chassis Model: Special Deal Hot Seller - Cooler Master 942 HAF X
Exterior Finish: - Standard Factory Finish
Trim Accents: - Standard Factory Finish
Processor: Intel Core i7 3930K 3.2GHz (Unlocked CPU for Extreme Overclocking) (Six-Core)
Motherboard: ASUS P9X79 DELUXE (Intel X79 Chipset) (Features USB 3.0 and SATA 6Gb/s)
System Memory: 8GB DDR3 1600MHz Digital Storm Certified Performance Series (Highly Recommended) (Hand Tested)
Power Supply: 1200W Corsair Pro Gold Series (CMPSU-1200AX) (Dual/Triple/Quad SLI Compatible)
Expansion Bay: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 1: Operating System: 1x (120GB Solid State (By: Intel) (Model: 320 Series)
Set 1 Raid Options: - No Thanks
Hard Drive Set 2: Multimedia\Data: 1x (1TB Western Digital Caviar (7200 RPM) (Model: Black Edition)
Hard Drive Set 3: Backup\Misc.: - No Thanks
Optical Drive 1: DVD-R/RW/CD-R/RW (DVD Writer 24x / CD-Writer 48x)
Optical Drive 2: - No Thanks
Internet Access: High Speed Network Port (Supports High-Speed Cable / DSL / Network Connections)
Video Card(s): 3x SLI Triple (NVIDIA GeForce GTX 570 2.5GB (Includes PhysX) (EVGA 025-P3-1579-BR)
Add-on Card: - No Thanks
Sound Card: Integrated Motherboard Audio
Extreme Cooling: AIR: Stage 2: Noctua NH-D14 Extreme Performance (Does NOT fit on the regular EVGA X58 3X SLI)
H20 Tube Color: - Not Applicable, I do not have a FrostChill or Sub-Zero LCS Cooling System Selected
Chassis Airflow: Standard Factory Chassis Fans
Internal Lighting: Internal Chassis Lighting System (Blue)
Enhancements: - No Thanks
Chassis Mods: - No Thanks
Noise Reduction: - No Thanks
LaserMark: - No Thanks
CPU Boost: Stage 2: Overclock CPU 4.5GHz to 4.8GHz (Requires Pro or Deluxe Series Motherboard)
Graphics Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my video card(s)
Memory Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not overclock my memory
OS Boost: - No Thanks, Please do not tweak the services on the operating system
Windows OS: Microsoft Windows 7 Professional (64-Bit Edition)
Recovery Tools: Windows Recovery Toolkit (Bundled with Windows 7 CD)
Virus Protection: - No Thanks
Office: - No Thanks
Game: - No Thanks
Display: - No Thanks
Surge Shield: - No Thanks
Speakers: - No Thanks
Keyboard: - No Thanks
Mouse: - No Thanks
External Storage: - No Thanks
Exclusive T-Shirt: FREE: Digital Storm T-Shirt - Black (Small)
Priority Build: - No Thanks, Ship Within 5-15 Business Days After Order Is Successfully Processed
Warranty: Life-time Expert Customer Care with 3 Year Limited Warranty
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 2:43pm
My first thought would be.. DS does do all the testing and do you trust them or not?  Or are they pushing H series cooling for shipping reasons, cost, etc. 
I can't answer that.  I would like to think they are doing what's right.
 
Next thought...I have read that approaching 4.8 Ghz oc the air coolers do have a problem keeping up.   The 3930's do crank out more heat.  If the D14 or A70 have a problem I would think H series also would.  The H 80 has never been shown to outpace the D14 by more than 1-3C, if that.  Not sure of the h100. 
 
 In that case a stage 4 lc and above or lower oc, like maybe 4.4 Mhz would have to do.  I personally don't like the structure of the H series, but that is not from experience.  That small pump in that small head doesn't instill confidence for me personally.  Nothing like a big block of fins with no moving parts. Excited  They both have fans that are reliable and easy to swap out.
 
I see your frustration.Cry
 
I can't really say.
 
 


Edited by bprat22 - 07 Feb 2012 at 2:56pm
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 2:50pm
I'm really not buying it, considering in most results I've seen the H100 has to be on the "High" (i.e. loud as heck) fan setting to beat/match the NH-D14.

Of course I should state that I have a bias, being an owner of the NH-D14 and having it keep my temperatures in excellent ranges (with overclock) on the older X58 platform.


Edited by Tidgxor - 07 Feb 2012 at 2:52pm
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  Quote Zieno Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 3:06pm
I dont buy it. its been done before, so why not now, if the heat is simply to much cant they just lower the overclock a bit?
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  Quote josh134 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 4:09pm
Originally posted by Zieno

I dont buy it. its been done before, so why not now, if the heat is simply to much cant they just lower the overclock a bit?


It appears from DS' response that lowering the oc is, in fact, an option here.
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  Quote arch04 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Feb 2012 at 10:48pm
Another thing to consider is how the airflow of the haf x works.    Normally a noctua d14 does fine but you do have 3x 570s in there causing more heat.     Not only are they causing more heat but any intake aIR (side/front) has to pass over said hot cards before it gets to the noctua.    Air coolers work great until you have hot air blowing over them.   This is a case where I personally can see benefits from switching to the h80/100,as they are less suceptable to hot air. ( not saying they are invicible to it, just less influenced than air cooling)
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 7:09am
It's not that I don't want to move to closed loop cooling for cooling reasons itself, but rather the noise is the issue for me I think..
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 7:42am
Hi arch04...So your testing shows the same amount of hot air, if not more , passing through the H80/100 radiators I believe you mount to the top, has less adverse effect on cpu cooling? 
 
I said "if not more" because the air coolers (A70, D14 ) kick a lot of the air straight out the back.  The air coolers do pick up gpu heated air but it can't be any worse than all that air going through the "H" radiators that might already have their hands full.
 
Just thinking out loud Big%20Smile 
 
Thanks for joining in the discussion.  Big%20Smile
 
 


Edited by bprat22 - 08 Feb 2012 at 8:13am
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  Quote kane860 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 8:30am
I wonder if I was the "previous customer" lol  Ninja ... because I definitely did push for the newer Noctua D14 se2011 version with the new mounting bracket.. I had to wait for it though as it was shipped from overseas but it was worth the wait Awesome
System:
HAF X942 / i7 3930k 6-core cpu / ASUS P9x79 Deluxe MOBO
16gb DS ram / Corsair 1050HX PSU / Two - Intel 320 series 120gb SSD's
WD Caviar Black 1TB HDD / GTX570 2.5gb GPU / Noctua D14 Cooler
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  Quote kane860 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 8:31am
why not just go with stage 1 overclock instead of stage 2?  Thats what I actually did... they got me to 4.3ghz.. good enough for me
System:
HAF X942 / i7 3930k 6-core cpu / ASUS P9x79 Deluxe MOBO
16gb DS ram / Corsair 1050HX PSU / Two - Intel 320 series 120gb SSD's
WD Caviar Black 1TB HDD / GTX570 2.5gb GPU / Noctua D14 Cooler
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 9:15am
Originally posted by Sanguineraven

It's not that I don't want to move to closed loop cooling for cooling reasons itself, but rather the noise is the issue for me I think..


I can't vouch for the H series personally, but a quick web search seems to result in a lot of people complaining about the noise. Again, that's just a quick search, and a quick search on anything tends to bring up the bad stuff first. As for the Noctua, I cannot hear it. Literally, the idle noises of the GPUs are louder than the D14 has ever been in my case (HAF-X).
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 9:48am
Test results I've seen from various sources is that the Noctu D14 and H100 stay neck in neck in controlling heat UNTIL you hit the 4.5Ghz oc with X79 paltform, then the H100 does a few degrees better ( celsius), pulling ahead of the D14.  But, to do this the H100 has to go to max speed and the noise is lots more than D14. 
 
Like kane said, an oc below 4.3 might be necessary to use air cooling. 
 
As a reference to Tidgxor's D14, my A70 which is known to be a tad noisier, is almost quiet unless I pull the side panel and stick my head in.  The case fans, ODE, and A70 make a slight swooshing noise, the gpu fans most of the noise.
 
 
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 10:42am
The H100 can perform well on quiet settings since it is a dual 120mm radiator unit. It has a built-in fan control feature where you can adjust the radiator fan speeds by pressing the control button on the head of the CPU block. Also, the H100 makes it easy to access the memory slots that a big air cooler like the Noctua would otherwise block. It also reduces the risk of your board flexing in shipping from a heavy air heat-sink.

 
The H100 will perform better than the D14 due to the large radiator surface area even at low fan speed settings.
 


Edited by Alex - 08 Feb 2012 at 10:47am
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 10:49am
Thanks Alex...That was one of the charts I was referencing in comment aboveBig%20Smile
 
Question....The quiet mode on H100 can or cannot be used with stage 2 oc'ing whcih seem to be the concern...
 
Thanks for info
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 10:51am

It should be no problem with the fans on medium.

 
The H100 honestly performs very similar to the D14 Noctua at same noise levels from what I've seen in-house.
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 12:45pm
Notice the only main difference is only 5 degree between h100 on high and noctua. Remember that the noctua runs at 1250rpm, while the h100 on high hits 2500rpm on high; [U]double[/U] the speeds. The h100 is a more powerful unit, but the noctua is unbeatable for sound levels and effeciency.

If I have to go to a 4.3ghz clock like Kane (Yes! You were the "customer" I referenced!)That is fine by me. This thing is going to destroy every game I own and will own for a while anyway, and I would prefer the quieter option.

Also..

The h100 is 30 dollars more than the d14 on new egg (120-90=30) but DS charges 10 dollars less for the h100. And with continuing promotion of the Hydro series although the D14 is at least as much as viable option leads me to believe a partnership is in play here.

Does that matter, eh not sure, but its something to consider.
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 12:56pm
We promote the H100 more since it's easier for us to integrate, safer for shipping, and is easier for our tech support team to have customers service their systems by accessing memory modules. It also performs as well as the D14, in all, it's a great win-win situation for our customers. That is also why we offer it at a very aggressive price (lower than the D14).
 
Going with a lower overclock should be perfectly fine. Big%20Smile
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:13pm
Alex...one more question on this topic....what has been the reliability of the H80/100 as compared to air coolers?   That is my own concern.   Thanks.
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  Quote josh134 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:17pm
Alex, as a follow up to bprat22's question, is there a difference in noise level between the H80/H100 and the Stage 4 LC system?

Thanks
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:22pm
@bprat22, we've had hardly any issues with the Corsair liquid coolers. A good portion of our builds use them, if there was even a slight chance of high failures, we would never promote them, as we have to provide a warranty behind the systems. Big%20Smile
 
 
@Josh134, the noise level is fairly similar. Our Stage 4 system uses performance fans so it's going to be nosier than the Corsair units since you can control their fans. If you want a quiet system with Stage 4, I recommend going with also our Stage 1 Noise Suppression package.


Edited by Alex - 08 Feb 2012 at 2:22pm
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:22pm
I know I'm not Alex, but I always thought the h100s must have great reliability considering they have a 5 year warranty.

Custom water loops should be much quieter than the Hydro series because the expensive equipment used in them allows for lower strain with the same temps.

From heresay and logic though, not experience.

EDIT: looks like Alex beat me to it! :)

Edited by Sanguineraven - 08 Feb 2012 at 2:23pm
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  Quote josh134 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:30pm
Alex, thank you. Unfortunately because my chassis is the Syndicate I was told the noise suppression package was unavailable. However, I changed out the stock fans on the U2-UFO with cooler master r4's (which I wa told was the only thing I could do on the build to make it quieter).
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:39pm
I was told 3.9ghz with the noctua is max that they could do..

What should I go for?
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 2:50pm
Appearing as a , in political terms, a "Flip-Flopper", go H100. My opinion but your money     If it breaks they fix it and you have a higher Oc.        Boy am I gonna catch hell for this.   
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  Quote Alex Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 3:17pm
The Cooler Master R4's air fairly quiet.
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 4:20pm
Originally posted by Sanguineraven

I was told 3.9ghz with the noctua is max that they could do..

What should I go for?


Interesting, I think I need to read more about how the 3930k overclocks then. Because I've got a 990x at 4.6Ghz (With the NH-D14) with good temps and a vcore of 1.36 and I know very little about overclocking. I'll have to check out a few forums to see how others are doing, since I'm still on the old platform Big%20Smile.


Edited by Tidgxor - 08 Feb 2012 at 4:23pm
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  Quote ablahblah Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 10:29pm
Just wondering, by any chance you think orienting the airflow profile so that you a down facing vertical channel for the D14? As in you orient the top fan pulling air down, and the D14 aiming down as well. I'm used to seeing D14's aiming sideways so that's how I'm assuming it's currently oriented. By facing the D14 down and intaking from the top, the D14 gets fresher air instead of possibly being choked by the GPUs and the airflow channel from the top doesn't mess with the airflow channel through the D14. Sure, the GPUs are going to get a bit toastier though, but they do have an abundance of air around them anyways from the front and side intakes.
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  Quote arch04 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 08 Feb 2012 at 10:50pm
Thats funny you say that because myself and my roommate were just talking about doing that.   Its an idea we plan go run by the guys testing it tomorrow.   
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  Quote FrankW Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 8:22am
With stage 4 LC why can't you use the xspc rx series rad with gentle typhoon fans? Isn't that a quite and efficient setup? I know it would be special order but probably worth it.

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  Quote kane860 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 8:43am
Originally posted by Sanguineraven

I was told 3.9ghz with the noctua is max that they could do..

What should I go for?
 
oh hell no.. who told you that?  I just bought my rig about 6 weeks ago with the 3930k and the Noctua and they got me to 4.3ghz with no problem.  I suggest you be more aggressive with your overclock request.  I told them to get me as close to 4.4ghz as possible and they got me to 4.3. 
System:
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16gb DS ram / Corsair 1050HX PSU / Two - Intel 320 series 120gb SSD's
WD Caviar Black 1TB HDD / GTX570 2.5gb GPU / Noctua D14 Cooler
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:16am
Kane860,
 
The issue is that in my setup the noctua, in testing, drew a lot of heat from the triple 570 setup, which messes up the thermal flow. Closed psuedo-watercooling like the hydros isn't as vurnerable to this effect, so I switched to the H100 which for MY setup is going to be a better option. In general i would still reccomend that lovely Noctua! But this should turn out pretty sweet too. Im back in the que now! Time to wait... Awesome
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  Quote bprat22 Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:29am
Congrats.Awesome
I can see where a tri-sli would make some difference.  Lots more heat being kicked up.  H100 does have a 5 year warranty so the manuf.  must have confidence in it.
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 10:52am
Originally posted by Sanguineraven

Kane860,
 
The issue is that in my setup the noctua, in testing, drew a lot of heat from the triple 570 setup, which messes up the thermal flow. Closed psuedo-watercooling like the hydros isn't as vurnerable to this effect, so I switched to the H100 which for MY setup is going to be a better option. In general i would still reccomend that lovely Noctua! But this should turn out pretty sweet too. Im back in the que now! Time to wait... Awesome


Congrats on getting closer to having your machine! Awesome

If you get a chance, let us know how the noise levels are on the H100, I'm curious how it does in your setup with x3 GPUs.


Edited by Tidgxor - 09 Feb 2012 at 10:52am
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  Quote Sanguineraven Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 12:33pm
I'll certainly let you know :)
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  Quote Tidgxor Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Feb 2012 at 1:37pm
Originally posted by Sanguineraven

I'll certainly let you know :)


Awesome, looking forward to hearing what you think, once you've had plenty of time to enjoy your rig of course Big%20Smile
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