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A continuance of the config discussion

Post Date: 2010-03-31

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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 2:06pm
Oh, ok so Noctua is for CPU cooling, not the graphics card. I didn't even know they had separate cooling systems. So would you recommend that I have DS put LC on the GPU, instead of the standard fans it comes with? Or would that not fit my budget? How is it that LC on the GPU allows for a graphics card to take up only one PCI lane instead of two, with fan cooling?
 
Thanks for the video link, Dragoonseal, it really answered a lot of questions I had about that motherboard. Sure looks good. I think you are right about the expansion ports though; any chassis I get from DS should be more than enough to satisfy any needs I would have for them. I'm just wondering because I will be putting a network card in there, but no crossfire or sli. As DST explained, it is usually better to just have one strong card rather than trying to run dual cards. Besides, none of the games I play probably even support such a setup.


Edited by Diogones - 31 Mar 2010 at 2:08pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 3:56pm
price is gonna jump around $1000 or so if we add LC to gpu, it will add LC to cpu also.

the cards take less space when lced, cause on air they are thicker, when lcing, you remove the fan from the card and the cover, this makes the card take one lane, cause now its thiner.

gpu rule number is that "single card solution is alwasys best when possible".

so ya you want to stick with one card.

I'm not sure if you get the idea of what expansion slots are yet, cause you can't about them seperatly, on their own they are just a hole in the back of the case, the only time you use a expansion slot, is when there is a card in pci lane, case the ports of that card will be accessible via expansion slot, with out the expansion slot or a hole in the back of the case, how would we access the dvi/hdmi ports on back of the gpu? or any card, say you install a tv card, or a usb card, how would you access their ports if there is no hole in the back of the case? those holes/openeings are called expansion packs, the only time you worry about number of expansion packs is if your mobo has more pci lanes then the case has expansion packs(holes/openings in the back).

does that make sense now?

the only reason you have expansion packs in the back of the case, is so that the ports for your pci cards you install, are accessible.

Edited by DST4ME - 31 Mar 2010 at 3:58pm
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 4:15pm

Yes, that makes sense now, referring to the expansion ports. Sorry I had to drag that on for so long, but I was just trying to figure out what they were and how to use them. But thanks to your explanation, I understand what they are all about now.

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 31 Mar 2010 at 4:45pm
Don't mention it, we all had to start somewhere, important thing is that you understand what it is, don't worry about the rest
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Apr 2010 at 4:30pm
Now I've noticed when I try to change the processor model on DS' configuration page, they have the i7 920 posted as going out, and the note encourages upgrading to the 930. Is there a huge difference between the two types, and why is DS doing this? Now that the Nividia GTX 470 1.2GB is out, would that be a better choice for the resolution I'm going at? (1920x1200) Or is the 1GB 5870 still going to be the better choice? Additionally, what is the amount of memory or cache in the 5870 and 5850. Last but not least, how much more do you think it would cost to upgrade the 500GB drive from a 16GB cache to a 32 version?

Edited by Diogones - 02 Apr 2010 at 4:41pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 02 Apr 2010 at 6:04pm
I guess they are out of 920, not difference between them.

the 470 with a mild oc will give you 5870 performance, the 5870 and 5850 both have 1GB ram.

the upgrade for 32MB should be like $30 bucks.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Apr 2010 at 2:47pm

Do you think that two hard drives is a better setup for video casting, recording, and uploading? I will be creating some videos with a voice over to post on Youtube, and I was wondering if the two drives will prevent lag during the recording process. I won't need two graphics cards for the job, but I defintely shouldn't get a weaker one, as I don't want to cause a bottleneck with the i7. Do you know of a build that would be good for that sort of process (video making, etc.) and do you think I would have to raise the PSU from 750 to 1000W for that to work?

Also DST, the games that I play (Blizzard and older games) don't really have aa and af settings, meaning that I could play with them at max settings with a different resolution and graphics card then the setup you suggested for 16xaa and 8xaf (correct me if I'm wrong about the max for those settings). For example, I might not need a 5870 for a bigger resolution, since the games are not as graphically demanding as that.

Edited by Diogones - 06 Apr 2010 at 2:56pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 Apr 2010 at 6:16pm
if your games are old all you need is a 5850 or 470 and probably those will be too much, but I would go with one of those, since the gpu is not that important then go with 5850.

HDD has nothing to do with your uploading to the net, if that is what you are talking about, the 2 drive setup I was taking about are not in raid and are independent, if you want HDD speed go with velcoi 300GB.

gpu bottle neck should not start till you get to tri and quad cf/sli, but from what you are saying you will never need cf or sli to begin with.

for a single 5850 a 750w corsair is fantastic, with room for upgrades.

for video processing, its not my area of expertise but if I understand it correctly, you would want a fast powerful cpu, the faster the cpu speed the faster things will move, assuming you have enough ram for the task.

and its usually 8x aa and 16x af , the max can be higher for example the 480 can do 32x aa, but most high settings that you hear most are 8x aa and 16x af.

Edited by DST4ME - 06 Apr 2010 at 6:17pm
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Apr 2010 at 4:00pm
Yes, my games are either older, or in the case of Blizzard, more CPU than GPU intensive. I don't play any FPS, MMORPGs, or flight simulators, which are usually the most demanding genres of games, graphic wise. What do you think about me getting the GTX 275 card? According to its benchmarks, I think it will be able to handle those games I play at max settings on a 24 inch resolution.

Granted, you are correct in that HDD doesn't affect uploading, but playing a game and recording it at the same time; could two HDDs allow that to work faster, or is it not worth the cost?

Yes, you're right, I'm not going CF or SLI, and I will have the powerful CPU with DS' overclocking, so that shouldn't be an issue.
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  Quote Dragoonseal Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Apr 2010 at 4:42pm
Originally posted by Diogones

What do you think about me getting the GTX 275 card? According to its benchmarks, I think it will be able to handle those games I play at max settings on a 24 inch resolution.

I'm not even sure what the 275 is going for these days but I would pass it up regardless because it is only a DX10 card. I would go with an ATI 5770 or a 5850 for DX11 support. From thumbing through a few benchmarks quick it looks like the 5770 is pretty comparable to the GTX 275 in most games, and DS offers them for $65 less than the GTX 275.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 07 Apr 2010 at 5:12pm
the 275 is fine for older games but anything 2 years old or newer will need 2 x 275 at your res, which is not worth it, a 5850 or 5770 I think because they have dx11 are a better choice.

playing games and recording it are more demanding on cpu/gpu, HDD plays very very very little part in that if any.

so if you are over budget get the 5770, but if you can go with 5850.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 8:09pm
Ya, ok DST, I think you are right, the 5770 or 5850 will be great for the dx11. Thank you for answering my question about the hard drives; I guess the OC i7 860 or 920 (depending on which I get) will be able to handle it.
 
I may be just stick with the P55 chipset instead of the X58, which means a 1156 socket instead of a 1366 for the motherboard. Granted, I won't be able to get the six core upgrade down the road without upgrading the mobo as well, but I doubt that will hardly be necessary, (the i7, OC no less, is going to be more than enough for me right now) so I definitely have room to grow.
 
Justin hasn't responded yet to my lastest post about the different color chassis, but I'm going to call DS tomorrow so that I can get the details hammered out. While I can go with the more expensive HAF case, I can go with DS' lower ended chassis just to save a little bit more. Shouldn't be a problem, as I don't need a full sized tower, and with Noctua it won't be overheated.
 
I'll post if I have any more last minute questions, but I got the handle on the gun and reaching for the trigger! Tongue
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 09 Apr 2010 at 8:23pm
My pleasure and good luck you have any more questions just ask, IMO stick with 1136, here specially the price difference is very little, but at the end you know what is best for you.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 5:41pm
Alright, I talked to DS, but I wasn't able to seal the deal with them yet, as I got to decide on a monitor so I can get the resolution figured out. Then the GPU can be picked, as I couldn't tell them which graphics card I needed. I thought that the NEC EA231WMi monitor is pretty good, as it's the right price for an IPS monitor. With a standard resolution of 1920x1080, the 5850 should do the trick. The Nvidia equivalent isn't that much better, is it? Or does it come down to personal preference? I didn't want to go with the Dell U2410 as it is somewhat above my price range, and it isn't all that much better (just some extra features) as far as I could tell. The link for it is here: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16824002524

I thought about going with the ViewSonic VP2365WB monitor, shown here: http://www.viewsonic.com/products/desktop-monitors/lcd/pro-series/vp2365wb.htm but it has an equally slow response time, so I am uncertain that it would help with games. While the NEC monitor is also slow, it can be configured to decrease input lag and thus help prevent ghosting.

Now did you mean stick with the 1366 port, DST, or were you referring to the 1156 model?

I think I'll avoid going with the dual hard drive setup and just get a single, super-fast 10kRPM drive, and use my external 500GB USB Seagate for storage and data transfer. By the way, at what point does SSD become faster than rotating drives? Are they always faster, or does an insanely fast HDD such as 15kRPM finally beat SSD capabilities?

Congratulations on your new rig, DST! I love the picture; that thing is not a computer, it's a damn spaceship! Contact me as soon as you reach the opposite end of the Milky Way! Tongue


Edited by Diogones - 16 Apr 2010 at 5:41pm
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  Quote justin.kerr Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 16 Apr 2010 at 6:19pm

fastest HDD about 20 times slower than a mid-line SSD

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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 1:07am
SSD makes a pretty big deal with everything really, faster transfer, read and write, seektime. but its up to you, also "dual hard drive setup" is more referring to a setup with 2 drives in raid working as one, all you are doing is adding an HDD.

Yes I did mean the 1366 sorry

thanks I will let you know when I get to opposite end of the Milky Way

honestly I'm not sure how good hat nec is today, I'm worreid you might get ghosting, some body else posted a new HP monitor that is not as good as the Dell but its very good IPS panel. here

for your res you want a 5870 or a 480.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 2:09am
Thank you justin.kerr and DST for defining the extent of SSD's powers. It really is that much stronger than rotating hard drives, as I suspected. Not to mention also being more durable, as it has no moving parts and is thus less likely to break.
 
Ok, I'll stop using the term "dual hard drive setup" to explain what I'm doing. Part of learning about custom computers is understanding the nomenclature involved, so I apologize if I cause any confusion. What I mean is I'll have DS put in one small, super fast drive, (I haven't decided if I should go SSD or not, though it is tempting) and then use my larger, albeit slower external hard drive, thereby having two HDDs, not a RAID configuration.
 
You could be right, the 1366 is only an extra $100 or two, and it really has long term benefits, especially since I want this computer to run fine for awhile before I upgrade it in several years. Having the 1366 will make the upgrade and transition easier, and cost much less.
 
Wow, thanks a lot for the link to the HP monitor: an IPS with a 5ms response time? Now I'm impressed, for as you mentioned, the Nec I posted was pretty slow, with the 17ms response time. It is hard to find an IPS with a low input lag rate, as IPS doesn't work the same way TN does. That's why I can understand a lot of dedicated FPS and flight simulator gamers choose TN monitors over IPS displays. Still, it does come down largely to preference and budget, as all computer components do.
 
 


Edited by Diogones - 17 Apr 2010 at 2:11am
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 2:16am
Our pleasure

as for HDD setup as I said, all you are doing is adding an internal HDD or external HDD for storage, in your case it an external.

as for monitors not so fast, the hp is btb I think, the nec is white to black, white to black is suppose to take longer, but its a little better way of measuring, makers use black to black or grey to grey, cause they produce smaller numbers, fooling people into thinking response time is faster, in reality, there are different ways of measuring it, which will then produce different results, so you can't even compare one monitors gtg to another monitor's gtg cause we don't know what method they used to measure it, and there is no real way of measuring response time, but the closest to it would be white to white, which you don't see anybody do, at least nec had enough balls to post white to black.

ips panels have better pic quality and with the new panels I think fsx and them should do well, the older ips panels had ghosting which why users went with tn panels, well that and tn has lower quality picture thus it cost less.

Edited by DST4ME - 17 Apr 2010 at 2:17am
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 6:42pm
So what you are saying is that while HP's monitor has a faster response time, that is only because they use a different method of measuring the color and shade change? (In this case, from black to black) If this is so, then wouldn't the Nec be a good choice because it would at least have a more accurate number, having used a white to black scale? Or is the Nec just such an older computer - as you mentioned before - that it would produce more ghosting than the HP anyway?

Edited by Diogones - 17 Apr 2010 at 6:43pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 17 Apr 2010 at 6:46pm
the HP does not have a faster response time, you are just falsely being led to believe it does, there is no real way of measuring response time, closest you come to it is white to white but even that is not real accurate and again depends on how you test it.

I would say Dell UltraSharp U2410 as first option and the HP as second, if you look at current nec ips panels you will see they are much more expensive then the one you are looking at.

but I do love nec and I think they make great monitors, but one should go for a newer ones if you are gaming.

Edited by DST4ME - 17 Apr 2010 at 6:47pm
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 4:52pm
Yeah you could be right; the NEC display I'm looking at is a bit old; I wonder if they have anything newer at the same price?

I'm researching the Dell U2410, and while it certainly does look like a quality monitor, it does have some color bleeding and tint issues. While I do understand that every monitor will have its drawbacks, I will of course be most concerned about the actual image quality, not necessarily the ergonomics or port capability that the Dell monitor showcases.
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 19 Apr 2010 at 5:17pm
If you talk to our members here on the forum you will see that they don't complain of this issue with Dell, I think there is some fault on the users side or something, cause if it has that problem, I don't see how none of our at least 6 or 8 members here have not had any at all.

Nec monitors are quality and expensive, so you are not gonna find an ips panel from nec for under $500 or $600 and those are the bottom ones.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 Apr 2010 at 2:22pm
I think this monitor  http://reviews.us.samsung.com/7463/LS24KIZKFV_ZA/2494sw-reviews/reviews.htm?sort=reviewTextLength   is a good comparison to the Dell U2410, except I am unsure if it is IPS. If it isn't mentioned, should I assume that the display is TN? 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 20 Apr 2010 at 3:37pm
lol that monitor can't even hold a candle to the Dell, its not even an ips panel, so right off the bad it does not have the same picture quality as the Dell.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 3:15am
Thank you DST, it looks like that monitor was TN after all. I do have a few monitor questions:
1.) Is an aspect ratio of 16:9 better than 16:10, or are they similar?
 
2.) While a minimum resolution of 1920x1080 is required for full 1980p HD, will higher resolutions support that format?
 
3.) I know that HDMI is the best video connection for monitors; hence why you suggested the Dell over the HP, as it has an HDMI connection, as well as a wider color gamut and a card reader, among other things. But how effective is a DVI to HDMI cable/converter? It isn't as good as the real thing, but would it work with a DS computer? That is, do DS computers have an HDMI port?
 
 Regardless of what monitor I pick, I think I'll settle with a resolution of 1920x1200. That is suitable for most 22-24 inch monitors, and getting an IPS display with anything higher would probably be beyond my budget.
 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 2:32pm
1. I like 1900 x 1200 cause you get more vertical space and I just like a wide screen monitor.

2. you mean 1080P, there is no 1980P. 1080P is the highest HD format right now, first it was 1080i and that is what you get from channels you watch, but bluray for example is 1080P, 1080P has better quality then 1080i. the resolution for HD has to be at least 1900 x 1080,the higher you go the better details you get.

3. the only difference between hdmi and dvi is that hdmi has sound, picture quality is the same, I recommend the Dell cause its a good ips panel, in short I first and formost recommend that monitor cause its an ips panel, ips panel has a much better picture quality then tn panel. Now if we are comparing 2 monitors that are both ips panels then we look at color gamut/processor and etc.

I think a good ips panel with 1900 x 1200 res is perfect and that should be a 24".

you can use that panel with your DS system for a good few years of gaming and love it, then I'm sure in 3 years or so, we would be dealing with 120Hz monitors and 3D stuff perhaps, so anytime after that point perhaps we will all be looking for 120Hz monitors.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 4:57pm
I stand corrected; it is 1080p and that was a typo, thanks for the edit.
 
Ok so HDMI would be a single cable since it has both sound and video, as opposed to a DVI which would require two cables, with one for each? Or did you mean that HDMI has better sound quality while retaining the DVI's video quality?
 
I completely agree with you: 1900x1200 at 24'' is right on the money in terms of size and picture quality. Anything larger would be more screen estate than what I would need.
 
I'm glad you brought up the idea of comparison; as luck would have it, I've been comparing the HP and the Dell monitors, and this is what I've noticed:
 
The Dell is the stronger choice in terms of color accuracy and rendering - it has a wider color gamut and a higher pixel count. Some complain that the display is too bright, but I cannot comment on that.
 
The U2410 also has far more connectivity in its vast array of ports, (such as HDMI) as opposed to the HP, which has far fewer connection options.
 
I read through several forums for both monitors, often side by side, and the general impression that I apprehended was several disastisfied customers complaining about the Dell's infamous green or pink tinting issue. In some cases the customers returned the product under the terms of the warranty and received a new one, to no avail. I even noticed multiple scenarios in which the monitor was replaced no less than three times with no change.
  Now I understand that not all the u2410s ever produced have this problem, and I'm sure the users on the forum who recieved their Dell got exactly what they ordered: a dynamic and high quality monitor. But it seems like it is a hit and miss proposition, for if I order one and I am unfortunate to find the screen has the tint issue, I would be unable to trade it in for a new one, according to Dell's new policy: http://en.community.dell.com/support-forums/peripherals/f/3529/p/19302919/19583511.aspx
Rather than take what appears to be a risky chance and possibly end up with a bad screen, and in order to avoid the hassle of shipping it back for a refund, I could go with the HP monitor.
  True, the HP may not pack such a punch as the Dell, but it is cheaper and most users were satisfied with its performance. In short, I would rather have a slightly inferior monitor which works well, than a slightly superior monitor that may possess dubious defects.
 
That would be pretty neat if 3-D becomes the rage in the next few years, and it is certainly likely. If 3-D environments really catch on, for the price of this monitor: http://www.ostendo.com/ I would just get a virtual reality headset and stay zoned out all the time. Smile


Edited by Diogones - 22 Apr 2010 at 5:03pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 22 Apr 2010 at 5:18pm
dvi just brings picture, you have a variety of choices on how to connect sound, depending on your out options and input options for sound.

we also don't know the processor for the HP, that will make a good difference also and I think all parts have a chance of getting a bad one.

I rarely go by what I read on forums unless I now the poster/s for a while, otherwise I can't tell how creditable the source is.

for example, you can go and find opposite of many-things justin says on the forum here, on many other forums and a bunch of people swearing by it, however knowing justin, I know he is right and the other are mistaken, no matter how many of them are, to me when searching the net, the creditability of the source is the most important thing.

I'm not saying that the Dell monitor does not have issues, but what I'm saying is that we don't now how many of those complaints are not user's faults, other companies just trying to make each other look bad, and how many are actually a bad panel, on top of that we have to keep in mind that 99% of the time, the people that post are the ones that have a bad experience, most people that have a good experience don't post, so we don;t know if out of a million, 100 are bad, or out of a 1000, 100 are bad, or what.

what I do know is that I know the members of this forum for a while, and if none of them got a bad one, then the odds are good that most won't, but those odds go for anything, your mobo, HDD, SSD, WB, CPU, GPU, PSU, etc.

again I'm just sharing info, at the end, its your money you should go with the one you feel comfortable with, and if thats HP then that is exactly what you should get.

Edited by DST4ME - 22 Apr 2010 at 5:19pm
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 2:39am
Thank you DST for explaining the difference in connections. Just when I thought I had everything figured out with computers (including our discussion about expansion ports) I realize I don't know much about monitor connectivity.
 
You are right in the sense that the forum users may only represent only a small portion of the population, or they just had bad luck, or they are competiting companies disguised as consumers, or any number of possibilities. But the thing that gets to me is, if I did happen to get a bad monitor, Dell wouldn't replace it. Now while you have a point - anything could go wrong on any parts - I know that if I got a bad HDD in my computer for example, DS would be more than happy to replace it. Besides, I haven't seen too many negative posts about DS, which is what interested me in the first place.
 
In any event, tint issue or no, after some deliberation, I've decided to not settle on a monitor at the present time, and just go ahead and order my machine. Since I know the resolution (1900x1200), I can finally get the GPU that will give me max graphic settings. While I'm not playing FPS or anything like that, it's always nice to have a decent graphics card so I have some wiggle room for future games I may want to buy.
 
I found out today during my research that DS and Ballistic Gaming PC are sister companies. I hate to say it, but it's a small world after all. Yet now I'm confused: which would be a better choice, Ballistic or DS, and does it really matter? They seem to have very similar builds, high standards, quality components etc so I think that no matter which one I choose, I won't loose.
 
I appreciate that you respect my monitor choice DST, and your insight about the Dell U2410 convinced me not to discard it as a viable display purchase. That's why I've decided to wait for the professional reviews on the HP to come out, so that benchmarks, contrast ratios, and any flaws can be revealed. So far, the only source I have found on the HP ZR24w is a montrous-sized thread on Hard Forum:  http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1491561 And since you made the candid remark that forums can't always be trusted (although this forum is the exception, rather than the rule) it isn't a credible enough source for me. The expert website reviews will probably be released while my computer is building, so I don't have to wait on them to order. My monitor will most likely arrive before my computer does, so I could order a screen at the last minute without difficulty. 


Edited by Diogones - 24 Apr 2010 at 2:40am
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 24 Apr 2010 at 3:12am
I think waiting on a monitor and looking at seeing what around for the next couple of months is a great idea. nobody is chasing you, wait and look at all your options then decide, hopefully prices have dropped a bit by that time.


ballistics is a sister company but I don't know how their standards are, them and DS are 2 different company and you should not judge one by the other, also DS comes with 3 warranty, ballistics has 1 year warranty.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 05 May 2010 at 6:35pm
Ok DST, I went ahead and double checked, and you're right. Ballistics is not the exact company, but it is a separate branch. Basically Ballistics will give you a similar build as DS at a lower price, but without all the extensive testing or the extended warranty that DS includes.

Getting back to the monitor discussion: good news! The review for the HPZR24 is fianally available! http://www.tftcentral.co.uk/reviews/hp_zr24w.htm
It looks like a strong contender to the Dell at a lower price, but without some of the features or connections the Dell sports.

I have two questions about my build:
1.) Should I just not get the free CPU OC, and thus save money by not getting a cooling upgrade to the Noctua?
2.) I think the 5850 is comparable to the default card they offer in the config, which is the GTX 470. While I hear that the Radeon cards are more durable, the Nvidia have more features. They also get hotter as well, so it might represent a cooling issue.
Here is my most recent ticket number: 403897. This does not include a couple of extra components I am getting: a digital media card reader and a wireless network card.


Edited by Diogones - 05 May 2010 at 6:37pm
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 05 May 2010 at 7:45pm
1. the whole point of cooling the cpu is for oc, otherwise the stock cooler is more then enough if the cpu is not oced.

so in short no, keep the oc on cpu, its the one thing that makes 90% difference in your performance.

2. the 470 is much better in performance if you bring in the gpu oc IMO. I don't know about ati cards being more durable, I would say they are both equal if anything. but if your res is 1600 x 1200 a 5850 will great also.

don't like that build cause it has no OC.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 1:37pm
Well ok, OC matters. But that's just the problem with the GPU: I won't be playing at 1600x1200, it will be 1920x1200, so will the 5850 still be able to handle it? If not, I can stick with the 470 or the 5870. I have already spoken with DS and they will not OC the GPU to significant levels, as they are worried about burn out/stability issues. Now, if you think I could OC it myself to get a performance boost, then I'll go with it. But just remember I will probably need your help as I have never OC'd a graphics card before. 
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  Quote DST4ME Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 3:04pm
IMO if you can go with a 5870/480 so that you don't have to worry about OC.

ocing gpu is much easier then cpu, but to go high takes lot of time and patience sometimes.
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  Quote Diogones Quote  Post ReplyReply bullet Posted: 06 May 2010 at 3:15pm
Alright DST, I can fit the 480 into my budget. But that is interesting that you noted the GPU having an easier OC. I wonder why DS doesn't like to OC their GPU's to higher levels? Maybe part of the reason is what you mentioned: it is so time consuming that it can cause unwanted delays and become cost prohibitive.
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